163. How to Avoid Building a Culture of Putting Out Fires

How to Avoid Building a Culture of Putting Out Fires

Jordan Buckner: [00:00:00] If you're a founder, you know that most of your day seems to be putting out fires. Problems are cropping up all the time. And when it feels like there's All taken care of more. Just keep coming up right behind it. And so as you're building the business, there's only going to be more problems down the line.

So what's important is not stopping the problems. It's really creating a better process to triage and manage them so that you and your team can avoid burnout. So to really dive into how to start thinking about building processes for your business, I'd invite it on Katie Armistead, who is a supply chain specialist for JPG Resources to really break down how you as an emerging brand should be thinking about building out these processes for your business.

Katie, welcome. 

Katie Armistead: Hi, Jordan. Thanks for having me. 

Jordan Buckner: Of course. So, you know, I think from your perspective, Katie, I'd love to hear some of the problems that you see most whenever you're working with brands to create process for their business. 

Katie Armistead: [00:01:00] Yeah and a lot of what I do in my day to day role is helping brands plan effectively for their brand.

So starting with creating a cheat sheet for your products and kind of having that Go to document to answer those basic questions all the way through to ordering packaging, getting set up with your co man, to production planning, and really to get from point A all the way to point Z, because we know there's tons of steps in that process.

Thank you. You've got a plan and you've got to give yourself time and space to think. Surround yourself with the right people. And just remember that you don't have to move quickly, but you should prioritize your issues and consider the severity and impact of everything that crops up. 

Jordan Buckner: Yeah, you know, I think one of the issues that we deal with these days is because we essentially have like open emails where like anyone in the world could email us.

We're constantly getting [00:02:00] bombarded with a, you know, quote unquote, like to do or task, whether it's from a potential sales opportunity or it's spam or it's a supply chain issue or a customer issue. And we're constantly at least having to like delete each one, but we kind of give the a little bit of mind space.

But what I love about the way that you work with brands is actually helping them figure out like what's important and what you can just ignore or delay that's not as urgent. So I'd love for you to kind of talk through like what that process looks like when you get started. I know you mentioned kind of having a checklist of things, but how do you then build that for yourself and for your team to consider like what to actually look at?

Katie Armistead: Yeah, so checklists are great and kind of learning from some of the project managers at JPG, you know, having very specific goals and prioritizing that list is very important. We're always short for time. You have a 30 minute meeting. Have an agenda, right? And make sure that when you're sitting down to consider whatever it is that it [00:03:00] is on hand, you know, prioritizing is great.

We all do it, right? I have one on ones with my manager. I'll say, I need help. Prioritizing what's on my list. And you think about a whole company, a whole business that has a list of items that needs to be prioritized. And I'll keep saying it over and over, give yourself time, right? Make the list, review it, talk to someone else about it, and then move forward.

But making sure you understand what has to happen first and what can wait can be really important. 

Jordan Buckner: Yeah. I love the fact that, like, having a set Strategy for your business, but then also like how you're going to manage issues as they come up, allow you to say no, or to ignore things that otherwise you might feel guilty for because you have a set kind of process that of dealing with those.

And if it's something like, Ooh, I really need to do it, then maybe it should be on the list. You can add that for the next time. So let's jump into kind of talking a little bit more detail. So one thing that I did [00:04:00] with my previous business, T Squares, was eventually kind of build out SOPs or standard operating procedures for the company.

But it was really daunting at first. So can you just do a quick overview of like what you consider to be SOPs or standard operating procedures and how to go about building them? 

Katie Armistead: Yeah. So there's lots of different SOPs, right? You might have one with your co man, your contract manufacturer. You might have one with your 3PL for your retail orders, but also your e com or D2C orders.

These are specific sets of instructions internally and externally. So you might start a new job and there's an SOP to help get you trained up on how to execute your daily tasks. I love starting an SOP with something that's. Very specific. I need to build an SOP to help my 3PL order fulfillment team put together a branded box.

It's a [00:05:00] kidded, you know, specialty item going to a customer. And so there's Lots of different items that have to go in it. So you're going to start with what's the goal? The goal is to build the kit. Everything goes into it. And what I like to do is go through the process myself and write it down and be detailed, be specific.

Don't make assumptions because everyone's going to process it differently. So, The more information you can get in there that is still concise and important, but hits home for most audiences. It's what's really important with SOP. 

Jordan Buckner: What's your take on what should be written out as a process and what shouldn't be?

Katie Armistead: Wow. So, you know, I'm more of a, Not percent. Add it all in. You can always edit it out. But you also don't want it to be so overwhelming that someone doesn't even take the time to read it. All of our attention spans are shortening and shortening every day. So, one pager, if possible. You know, [00:06:00] images, if possible.

And I would say, with Gen AI, that's a great place to start too. By going to Copilot and typing in, I'd like to write an SOP for D2C fulfillment for XYZ and it'll give you a great template to work off of that then you can add your own details to. 

Jordan Buckner: I love that idea. I think that part of the, the overwhelm is to think like, Oh man, if I have to write everything down that I do, then I'm just going to be constantly writing things down and never doing it.

But one thing, yeah, I heard this great quote from someone that said, yeah, if you're figuring out something for the first time, write it down so that you can do it the same way the second time or make changes. Because I think for small businesses, a lot of, yeah, as a founder, like a lot of our ideas and processes are stuck in our heads.

And it's not only good habit for a team member or someone else you might bring on, but even for yourself. So like, even as I record these podcast episodes, we have an SLP for all the different steps that we [00:07:00] need to do to make the podcast go live. And the reason is because With the business craziness of everything else, right?

Like I want something to go back to that would make sure I don't miss a step that's going to cause an issue down the road. And so for everyone listening in, if there's something that's a repeatable process, that's important. Write down a draft, like what that process is and keep it in one place so that you can always go back and review that and follow that along.

Katie Armistead: Right. Consistency is king. 

Jordan Buckner: So I know one, a couple of other areas that this comes up is working with a co manufacturer, right? If you are taking your product and having someone else manufacture it on your behalf. It's really important to make sure that you have a good relationship and process for them.

And so I'd love for you to talk through like some of the challenges and opportunities for working in development processes for contract manufacturers. 

Katie Armistead: Yeah, absolutely. And so at JPG, we do. More than 50 command searches a [00:08:00] year. And typically it takes two months to even find the right command that's right sized for your business.

So after you've taken all that time to identify the right partner, then you actually have to work with them. And so. Making sure that you have shared goals, I mean, your co man succeeds when you succeed and vice versa. So you want to be on the same page as to what is the gold standard and how are we going to get there.

So an SOP with your co man might include details as far as This is how I want you to leave a box, but you know, the larger goals than that, that are part of, you know, establishing that process with them is maybe having recurring meetings and having that set time every week. To get together and talk about, you know, what's happened, what's upcoming.

You want to be a good partner to them and share some of [00:09:00] that information. You're going to have new product launches or changes in packaging. You don't ever want to surprise your partner, just like you'd never want your co man to surprise you. So regular recurring meetings, a must for having a strong process with your co man.

SOPs again, and then. Making sure that you're in contact with them regularly outside of your SOPs and, and recurring meetings. Make sure you're available to them to answer questions too. 

Jordan Buckner: Have you found good ways of making sure your partners are Following the SOPs or checking them all. 

Katie Armistead: So I would say in those recurring meetings, asking how it's been going, you know, just the process makes sense.

Is there anything we need to adjust to make your life easier? I think you'll know, but it's not working if you're getting. You know, emails from customers or retailers or chargebacks, you know, this is being missed [00:10:00] or, you know, you'll know right away if, if they're not helping you meet your goals. 

Jordan Buckner: I love that.

So the, what's the product is leaving the manufacturers usually going to a warehouse or fulfillment center. So what's important as you're working with those partners? 

Katie Armistead: Working with the 3PL there's such diligence needed to get those orders out. Detail oriented people is who you need to find to work with.

The best partners I worked with at a 3PL have had regular meetings with us, have raised Issues immediately to let us know something's happened. Let's solve this together. Really good 3PLs will come to you with a solution already to an issue that maybe they've encountered, but they know they can fix.

Now, as the brand, a lot of the responsibility is going to be on you to make a decision and work with your 3PL to make sure that it's feasible. But A, a great 3PL partner is going to understand your urgency [00:11:00] when it is needed to get something done quickly and efficiently. 

Jordan Buckner: Yeah. I think that's the challenge both with manufacturers and warehouse and 3PLs is there's kind of sense of like, no one's ever going to be as detail oriented as a founder about their particular product.

Usually sometimes you can find some really good people who work. And so finding that balance between having something done exactly the way that you wanted and what might be a better process based on their team, facility, equipment, and finding that that sweet spot in the middle. Because the biggest.

Challenge in any relationship, right, is when your expectations don't align with the expectations or execution from a partner. And so if that 3PL is doing something that is outside of what you would want them to do, and you're not communicating that, and they're not receiving that, that's usually where the biggest issues come up.

Katie Armistead: I'd agree. And I have this conversation a lot with clients about the pros and [00:12:00] cons of self manufacturing or using a co man or doing your own order fulfillment or using a 3PL. And there's pros and cons to all of that, right? One you have almost total control and the other you're relying on a partner. So many brands need those partners.

You're not going to own your own warehouse. You're not going to own your own manufacturing facility. So having the trust, building the relationship and being a communicative partner with them are all going to help you get to the end goal that you desire. And again, they're successful when you're successful.

So you hope that. They buy in to helping your business as well, but it's also on use the brand to help sell your story and win them to your side a bit. 

Jordan Buckner: Yeah, I love that. I think with each of these, right, the goal of bringing on the partners is that it can release and free up your time from dealing with [00:13:00] these issues that come up because normally when there's an issue in place.

It's because of some things, you know, sometimes things go wrong, but if there's not a clear path or they're like reaching out to you, the founder or to the executive team to say, Hey, how did we solve this, then you need help in terms of figuring out a process to make sure that that doesn't happen again, or someone else is empowered to help make those decisions in a similar way that, that you would.

And so I think there's always this common thing that happens, especially for small teams, where everything just gets bounced back to the founder. And they feel like they have to take responsibility for like solving all the issues versus creating the right values and process and then empowering their partners and teams to do things in the same way that they will.

I'm curious to know, have you ever had conversations with these partners around like the values of the founder or values of a brand in terms of like, Hey, this is how we solve these types of issues so that you don't have to ask me every time. 

Katie Armistead: So the founder sharing [00:14:00] with the co man or the 3PL, this is the goal.

This is how we would like to see this done. 

Jordan Buckner: Yeah. And even as an example, I am probably a little loose on this, but I have a

And so I'll actually lose money on an order to ship a package express, if it doesn't meet our, the deadline, if there's a delay on our side, and I've had to do this recently with JoyfulCo, where there's an order again, the prop or a problem getting the order on in time, and I told them to ship it express, even though it would be a loss for us, because that was the value that we had to make sure our customers were happy.

Katie Armistead: Yeah. And. It's important to have strong customer service, right? Whether that's coming from the founder themselves or from their team. I have done a lot of. e com or online order fulfillment and been the person to make those decisions empowered by the founder. Say, yes, let's ship it. We're going to fix it.

At the end of the day, you have your [00:15:00] reputation. So as a brand, if you're making your customers happy, that's one of the best goals you can have because then they're going to tell their friends that they were taken care of. And They're going to go back and buy again. So I have seen founders who are doing that themselves, making those decisions.

small brands, you don't have the resources, right? It's just you. And I've also seen brands where they are pulling in the right resources and giving the trust to their employees, their teams, their resources that are outside of, you know, themselves as a person. And it all comes back to capacity, right? How much time do you have in the day and what decisions are you going to make do you need other people to make?

So like working with Any other partner, your employees are also your partners to go out and make the best decisions for your brand because you're all working towards the same goal. 

Jordan Buckner: Yeah, I think that's, that's so [00:16:00] important. And you know, in thinking about like how to. limit that idea of the right now as well.

You know, one other problem I see founders dealing with the same every problem it needs to be fixed immediately because it's in front of me. How do you talk with teams around timing and prioritizing for dealing with problems? 

Katie Armistead: And so, if you have your list of problems, it's easier to see what else is there and help prioritize if you're away from your list and you're trying to figure out, you know is this as important as something else, you know, I would consider the impact.

Is this an order that went out wrong and can quickly be solved, you know, low time commitment, high impact. If it's a frozen shipment that is, you know, stuck on the road and everything's melting, I would say that's high priority that you, yourself, other team members can work on together. That's a high impact because if you have [00:17:00] cases and cases that are at risk, so you know, based on the size of your brand, the size of your team and what resources you have available, you know, tapping into the experts that you've brought into your team, whether it's a freight broker that you can call up and say, I need your help.

And now you've deployed them to help you handle that truck that's stuck on the road. And. Being able to pause, that's the boundary that you can help set for yourself too, that taking a second, just a second. To think about what it is in front of you, and again, if it can go on a post it, and you can handle a couple hours, or if you have to make that call right now.

Jordan Buckner: I love that. Yeah, I think that's so important, and creates less stress for you and your team. I just, to be honest, like, I've been guilty of this in the past, where I am very much an idea person, and when I see problems come up, or opportunities, I'm always like, oh, let's act on it right now, let's try to do something right now.

And I [00:18:00] saw firsthand how that one burned myself out a little bit and then to burn my team out when I said, if everything is a priority and nothing is a priority, right? 

Katie Armistead: Well having, you know, those weekly meetings, whether if it's your internal staff or your outside partners, you can almost save up some of those topics, right?

Some , any of the issues or priorities that you're trying to determine and work on it together as a team at one time. Rather than constantly feeling inundated with having to make these decisions. 

Jordan Buckner: Oh my goodness, yeah, that's one major change that happened to me. Instead of emailing my team right away with every new idea, we set up a weekly meeting kind of notes document that has all of our that we go through for each meeting.

And I'll go into that, write everything in as I think of it, but I don't have to bother them in the, in the moment, or distract them, I should say, too. One other thing that happens a lot as founders, Not always knowing what needs to get done as part of a process [00:19:00] and how do you kind of work with partners to make sure that you're filling in all those gaps so that your processes and SOPs are actually, you know, relatively complete to make sure everything's covered?

Katie Armistead: Yeah. So if you're a brand, you've never worked with a com hand and you've gone and visited and you've done your trial and you've decided, great. We're going to have a partnership. I would absolutely lean on that co man for their expertise and quiz them. What are the best ways for us to get ingredients?

Is it through you? Is it us? What's the lead time? Same for packaging and just go through all the details and. Organically, more information and more questions will arise in those conversations. Another great way to understand what might need to go on an SOP is to go out into the community. I mean, you think about Startup CPG, the Slack channel.

This is a very friendly community, CPG, food and bev. If you go out and [00:20:00] ask someone for advice or help, you find another founder to be your mentor. Remember, people want to Other people to succeed in this business. So they're going to help lead you down the right path between those two resources. And I'll say it again, Gen AI, don't ask co pilot what should be in my SOP for contract manufacturing.

There's so much information out there. Part of it is making it. A digestible list for yourself, but don't let it overwhelm you and make sure that you are leaning on those resources and those experts that you've brought into your, your community. 

Jordan Buckner: One of my favorite questions as well as to ask is what are the common problems that go wrong with manufacturing rods, with working through 3PL, and it's usually through a Those problems that you can understand any gaps or common issues and then build that into your process and so be so that you can avoid the things that are happening [00:21:00] and a lot of times they can be specific to a specific like facility, right?

Like one manufacturer might say like, Hey, actually I'm on the line floor, so I'm not checking my email all day long. So if you like need to reach me. Send me a text or like call me because that's gonna get to me faster or just things like that to understand Like how do you communicate with them? How do you share updates whether your expectations for getting reports and status back?

So I think that's all super helpful. I love that. Well, Katie, I think this is all really insightful for how to Really avoid this whole idea of putting out fires by having a streamlined supply chain with standard operating procedures and empowering your team and partners to execute on your behalf so that you as the founder or the brand team don't have to be responsible for every single question.

That said, one thing that I have learned in this industry is that it often does fall on the brand to be the one responsible to make sure everything's going right. But that doesn't mean you have to be involved in every decision. It just [00:22:00] means you need to set up the right decision making process and the right parameters so that other people can operate with you.

Okay. Thanks so much for being on and sharing all your insights. 

Katie Armistead: Thanks Jordan. This was a blast.

Jordan Buckner: I also want to give a shout out. If you are a founder listening in and want help from others in managing and creating your SOPs, definitely talk to the team at GBG resources. I'll include that in the show notes.

And then also, they have their own Foundry Cohort Program where you can connect with other founders within their community. And as being part of the FoodBevvy community, you get a special 20 percent off discount for that. So if you're interested, we'll put those details in the show notes as well.

Thanks for watching NKV. 

Katie Armistead: Thanks.