Jordan Buckner (00:00)
Today, I'm a startup to scale podcast joined by a true pioneer in the world of organic CPG, Matt McLean, the founder of Uncle Matt's Organic. Matt's journey has really been a masterclass in scaling business, especially with integrity from navigating the complexities of retail and supply chains to really staying ahead of evolving consumer trends. Matt has built a mission-driven brand that's not only growing in profitable but principled.

And if you know and care about sustainability, business leadership, and the real story, this episode is for you. Matt, welcome to the show today.

Matt McLean (00:34)
and jordan thank you for that intro and really appreciate it look forward to talking with you

Jordan Buckner (00:38)
So selling in the CPG industry is always a challenge and you have seen your fair share of highs and lows on the journey, but we'll love for you to just give a quick overview of the journey of uncle Matt's, how you got started and how you got to where you are today.

Matt McLean (00:56)
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. So we are 25 years old, which is a little hard to believe. I graduated college in 1993. I got a degree in business. I grew up in citrus. I was a fourth generation. I am a fourth generation Florida citrus grower. My great granddad came down here in the late 1800s, passed along his love for citrus to my granddad, who passed it to my dad, who passed it to me.

And when I got out of school, I thought, you know, there's going to be a whole nother life for me outside of agriculture. grew up in the groves and thought, you know, why this is noble work. Maybe I can do something else for a living. And so I was fortunate to run into a gentleman who wanted to sell Florida orange juice over in Europe. And he had good connections with bottlers. He was a German guy and he had.

several German friends that own bottling facilities. And so it was a kind of a natural business opportunity for me to start my own business and still be connected to my Ag roots. So like if I could have chosen a path, that'd have been the perfect path for me. Right. I had some options to go into software sales, business form sales, some other companies, and this one just fell into my lap. I, when it did, I thought, you know, this, just feels right. And plus I, as a young kid, I get to travel to Europe.

Right. So, yeah, man, this is all severe right out of college. So off I went and we were selling bulk orange juice and grapefruit juice to Europe and then later the Middle East. And I really cut my teeth on juice quality, bricks, acid ratio, variety, all of those things. It was a nice starter course, precursor to Uncle Mad's for me to get that education and that experience. And one of those German customers asked me along the path along the way about organics.

And could I source organic juice for him? And that was my aha moment as the entrepreneur coming back to the U S I did find him organic fruit and we processed it and sold him some organic grapefruit juice. But along the way, we also, I looked out into the marketplace and there was no competitor. There was no organic at the time. This was 96, 97. So it took me a couple of years to figure out that whole like, wow, okay, this could be something fun and real and different. had no idea about CPG.

I was really, uh, talented at working with growers and buying their fruit and turning it into juice and putting it on a ship and sending it to Europe. Uh, but I knew nothing about retail and CPG, but I did know, Hey, I think there's an opportunity here. So it took me a couple of years just to flush out a name, flush out, uh, you know, what, what was the product necessarily going to be? Uh, who was I going to sell it to? Who could co-pack it, you know, design all of those things were brand new.

And so not until June of 1999 did I finally launch. And by that time I had some pretty formidable competitors. had a Pavich Organic was in front of me, Horizon Organic, the biggest dairy at the time, had launched Orange Juice. It was a perfect line extension for them. And so I was a me too by the time I launched. like, but I was too young and dumb to know any different. And by God, this is, you know, felt like is what God was calling me to do. And off I went on that journey with Uncle Matt.

Jordan Buckner (04:00)
That is really exciting. mean, in selling juice internationally, I'm sure it has its whole range of complexities that you had to learn and deal with. That and having juice shipped across the world, which is really exciting. What was most exciting about starting the CPG brand and going from kind of that wholesale to CPG? And then you mentioned there was an opportunity for organics. Was there also excitement about having your own kind of brand?

Matt McLean (04:08)
in doing

you know, it is the pinnacle, I think, for anybody in business, right? To once start your own business and then to have your own brand. And then there's something about also just the food business. You know, to put it on the grocery store shelf, everybody eats. Yes. So by gosh, they could possibly see you in a supermarket and it doesn't matter if you're just in one supermarket or thousands, if they see you on the shelf, like, wow.

You were like, made it, you're like in a supermarket, man. So you kind of got just instant gratification and credibility just right out of the gate. So that was a lot of fun to be able to see it come to fruition. And from our standpoint, my father and grandfather and great grandfather had always just been growers. We never had a brand. We never made it through the other side. We always just sold to a fruit buyer that would come.

to the Grove and say, I'll give you this amount of money for your fruit. And we said, we are never connected to the actual customer. We were also conventional growers. Not until I came along that we say, hey, let's go back and start farming organic again. So when I first started, I asked my granddad when I came back from Europe about, can we even grow organic? And he was basically offended and said, yes, of course. I was alive before pesticides were invented.

in the mid and late forties and we used a lot of organic practices and nobody called it organic and the growths thrived and did fine. And so at this point in his life, he was at the end of his life, he was so excited that two things, one, our family could finally reach the customer. And what we grew, they could finally taste and we could be a direct link to that. And then the second was going back organic to those practices

that he really loved back in the day that, weren't disproven necessarily. They were just displaced by other technologies. They were displaced by, you know, synthetic pesticides, synthetic fertilizers, you know, right or wrong. That's where the industry went. And most of agriculture went that way too. And so he had seen, you know, practices of growing cover crops, using compost, compost teas, seaweeds, things like that. Back in the day, he really liked those and he thought it was a nice holistic.

the tree and the grove and the soil, everything kind of worked in harmony. And he was not in agreement with where agriculture was at his stage at the end of his life, where it was more single factor analysis. If you have pests in the orchard, then find a pesticide. If you have weeds, well, then find a herbicide. know, it wasn't like holistically coming up, well, then how do you control them and work with nature instead of working against nature? So.

You know, if you ever felt like, this must be the right business plan. when you have that backing from your grandfather and father, and you know, I just felt right on so many levels. So work has never felt like work to me. It's always just been super fun, always a challenge. And I felt like I've always had that mission, you know, to go back to farming the way my grandfather and great grandfather and kind of, you know, going back to the roots of, agriculture.

Jordan Buckner (07:26)
Matt, what an amazing feeling to have your grandfather and father support in doing this, right? Because it's a way of extending their legacy and I'm sure provide some, some excitement, both from the organic practice and for the brand into what they were doing. Because I know agriculture was fairly cyclical, it's fairly similar every single year. Adding some excitement and, and, and extending that legacy.

What was that process like of starting to add in more organic grows? Was that relatively easy or was that a big healing process?

Matt McLean (08:00)
So it was a long-term process. And, you know, first off, my father and grandfather, they had about 550 acres in Lake County where I reside now. We're just west of Orlando, a little town called Claremont. And in the eighties, we had devastating freezes. So 1983 Christmas Eve, it froze and killed over 300,000 acres around Lake County, Orange County, kind of Orlando and

in the areas around Orlando. so they lost everything. They had to sell off the 550 acres. They became consultants. And so that was really tough for them, but they survived. And my father survived as a consultant. He went around from not just in Florida, but he started citrus growing in Bahamas with people, Costa Rica, Mexico, Belize. He went all over the place. My grandfather just moved to our South.

And he worked and lived his life out down there helping other citrus growers. for us, was really, my dad had 10 acres that we lived on and in his backyard, had three acres of citrus that left that he actually owned. So we started there and just turned that organic. That three acres. And then from there, we were working with, when I started in 1999, we found some organic growers that had already converted to organic. And so that's who our supply was with.

one co-op and a couple other individual growers. And we relied on them in the beginning as we built our own acreage and we went out from that three acres and we converted it at our peak. had over 35 growers in three different counties in the state of Florida, Lake, Polk and Highlands County. And it was over 1500 acres, all organic. And we took care of it. My dad and brother are the agronomists. So they led our ag team.

And they took care of it all. got it certified organic. We put it in transition, but it took a while because it's by law, it's three years from your last prohibited substance. So if you went out there as a conventional guy and sprayed pesticides, you know, today, then I'd have to convert you from today forward and put you on an organic farm plan from there forward. So we had to think long-term. had to always kind of just how, you know, putting more stuff in and more stuff in, and then, you know, you'd see the fruits of that, you know, three years down the road. And so that's how we had them.

to grow the business acre by acre, year by year transitioning it with some wonderful people that took the risk and leap of faith with us, growers that just believed in our family and the integrity that my dad and granddad brought to the table, and knowing that, they're gonna be tied directly to a brand. And some of them were tied to us based on philosophy, like, hey, I agree with you on organic and less harmful pesticides and synthetic fertilizers. And others were merely like, I could...

I'm not really on that bus as much from the environmental standpoint, but I am on, you know, an opportunity to make more money. Completely valid. And we did discriminate. We would take anybody. Right. And we love both of them. And eventually we hoped that they would come alongside. And the ones that were a doubter in it would say, Hey, you know what? This actually was good and it's a better way to farm. My, my grove is still really.

Jordan Buckner (10:46)
It's a bowl of failure, right? It's a business all-

Matt McLean (11:05)
healthy and making more money so then they would refer us to other neighbors and friends.

Jordan Buckner (11:11)
So Matt, building a farm and grove and supplier chain is very complicated. Building a brand and retail is very complicated. How did you manage to do both of those at the same time?

Matt McLean (11:21)
Yeah. So it was a lot of work, a lot of hard work. but my granddad, he'd have, he'd tell me along the way, you know, if it was easy, everybody would do it. So be happy that it's hard because it means less competition. So you're in our back going for you. but it was also a great team, right? We, I was blessed with a family that was very willing to help and they all had a specific skill sets. So my wife,

She was really good at graphic design and marketing. So she had the marketing team still today. My sister-in-law had a degree in communication. She was a great writer. She had a good eye for marketing as well. So her and my wife worked closely together. My dad and brother were, you know, went to school in agronomy. So they were the guys leading that side. My mom was great at HR and so she led our HR and our employees.

And then my brother-in-law worked part-time, he had his MBA and he helped on the finance piece. So we had a really good little core family group that, you know, I helped manage and guide along. They worked well together in the beginning. So, or threw out, but that's how we, it really helped as the company grew and it became more than just me literally doing everything from the QuickBooks entries, know, invoicing and sales and everything to handing off the other pieces of the business.

to people that have had a lot better skill set than I did to do it.

Jordan Buckner (12:39)
I absolutely love that and the values of having a family business and family to rely on. And especially with that long tradition of having a family business, then that's just the mindset and values that everyone can share together. Tell me, growing the brand, the business, at one point you decide to sell the brand. Tell me about that process of originally deciding to sell the business.

Matt McLean (13:02)
Yeah. So when we grew from 1999 until 2012, we didn't take any money. I didn't have to raise any money. were able to, you know, make it on the skin of our teeth from year to year. And then by 2012, we said, Hey, you know what? We really need to be more professional as a business instead of just a mom and pops. And then we had an opportunity to bring some money in and we brought in a private equity group.

at a Colorado called Greenmont. They were a more mission based, not really like venture capital. They believed in organic agriculture. They believed in health and wellness and specialized in that field. And so two people joined our board, the founder of Izzy, Todd Wolleson, and the founder of Horizon, Mark Retzloff. And so those two guys were great. One was really good at branding, which was Todd and beverage and

The other was great at organic agriculture. And that was Mark and those two on our board. And they were both really good at business. So they helped take us to the next level, KPIs, know, strategic planning, know, kind of the things you need to get to the next level of really managing and measuring the right things in a business to know that, you know, you're capable to strategically grow with what's coming in the future. So 2012, we took money in.

And five years by 2017, most of the time your money is a three to five year to seven year type window if you can. Right. And so they were ready to get out. And at the same time, our industry was rapidly changing. By 2015, we grew everything. We didn't import one single gallon of juice. But this little bug shows up in Florida and it's the Asian citrus psyllid and it's the vector.

like the mosquito spreads malaria, it spread a disease called citrus greening disease. And so it started infecting tree after tree after tree around the state, conventional and organic. And our production started going down on the 1500 acres and going down and down. And we realized, hey, this is going to be difficult. You know, we're going to have to dramatically change. If we don't find a cure, we're going to be out of business or we're going to have to start changing our model.

So I began using our reputation and going to the places that my dad had helped consult. So he went to Texas, Mexico, California, and started sourcing fruit from other places. But we knew that, hey, this is going to change the game quite a bit. And it's different than what we had envisioned long-term, which is, from 1,500 acres, how do we get to 5,000? Then how do we get to 10,000? And now literally the 1,500 acres are shrinking.

to 1,000 to 600 to today, we're at 70 of the 1,500 agents.

Jordan Buckner (15:48)
substantial like BS.

Matt McLean (15:50)
70

is just for R and D to try and find a cure. So our industry has dramatically changed in Florida. but so there was a, a point in our, companies like that. said, Hey, our brand is still growing really well. our engine that drove it has dramatically changed. Maybe it's time to look at exiting because when we went to just exit them as a minority partner, the private equity group.

Nobody wanted to just take a minority. They wanted to take the whole thing. And so we thought about it for quite a bit. I prayed pretty hard about it. Next thing I know, I just felt, this is, had peace. This was the right thing to do. We were going to sell the company and, you know, we did, we sold it to Dean Foods. Dean Foods was the largest dairy company in the U S they were publicly traded on NASDAQ.

Jordan Buckner (16:35)
milk

in the Midwest.

Matt McLean (16:36)
Yep. Yep. They started with Dean in the Midwest and then they grabbed a whole bunch of regional dairies across the country and they made a national brand called Dairy Pure. And they took on a whole lot of debt. And then the dairy industry started declining and declining because of plant-based milk, almond milk, coconut milk, soy milk, rice milk. And they had all these plants and all this debt and they eventually went bankrupt. But they were good people.

You know, tried hard and they were just in a bad environment and unfortunately couldn't get out of, uh, and pivot quick enough to the market that was changing in front of them. And so they bought us in 2017. They filed bankruptcy in November of 2019. And then May of 2020, we bought them back at a bankruptcy. Uh, was my wife and I, and we went out to the industry and

raised money through some other friends and investors to come out and buy it out of bankruptcy. So unbelievable story. I would have never thought in 2017 when I sold it, I literally would have at the house, the farm, everything that, hey, I will buy this back. And if I do, definitely wouldn't think I'd be buying it from bankruptcy. We sold this to such a large company. So you just never know.

Jordan Buckner (17:46)
So here you are growing business that's kind of your family's legacy, have an opportunity to sell. At that point when you decided to sell the company, did you think that you'd be out of the citrus business for a while?

Matt McLean (18:00)
Well, so I stayed on, my wife and I stayed on for a three-year employment agreement to run the company, which I wanted to do. You know, I had a legacy from it. wanted, we had farmers that supplied us. I wanted to make sure this thing was integrated correctly into Dean. Dean had 6,000 trucks nationwide that delivered the milk on DSD routes. mean, milk is ubiquitous in every, and so if there was a great partner,

to bring Uncle Matt's in our organic and democratize it across the country, they were it. And so I wanted to be part of that to try and leave that legacy. So I was on board and our company was doing fine. The CEO of Deem would always tell me, because I'd go out there every month to Dallas and meet with him and he'd say, gosh, I wish we could get the rest of the company to do as well as you. know, this little joker's doing really well. And I said, well, thank you. You know, we work hard.

at it, but yeah, we got it back and because we spent that time staying on board, I knew the company still really well and I knew the opportunity that was there. And since then, we have more than tripled the business, the size of the business, just had a lot of favor coming out of COVID with vitamin C and orange juice. And we launched a variety of new products.

around immunity specifically and inflammation and health and wellness and functionality. And it's just been a really great ride as we call it Uncle Matt's 2.0.

Jordan Buckner (19:20)
absolutely love that and that you had the opportunity to even buy back the business instead of seeing it go away with the bankruptcy or even happen can often do. There has been, I've noticed a larger trend of large companies purchasing growing brands, running it for a little while and then either shutting them down or selling them back to the founders. I'm interested to hear.

Since you've gone through the experience, your take on what it means to build a CPT brand and prospects for quote unquote exit or sell out on the brand.

Matt McLean (19:54)
Yeah, I mean, I think if you are a founder and you put your, you know, blood, sweat and tears in it, and you do get to the point where, you know what? I don't want to do it anymore for whatever reason. and you want to sell. No, if you can find somebody that aligns with your values, of course, that will, will help, make an easier transition. So they don't water down the product or they don't change the formula to try and.

you know, cheapen it and, and wring more profitability out of it. That, that typically is, you know, a mistake that bigger companies will make. They'll try and put it in their system. Now, if they can put it in and obviously, know, streamline operations, help with distribution costs, because you've got a whole lot more scale you can throw on, you know, your pallet to their 20 pallets on a truck. You know, all those things make great sense. But if you change the leadership, if you change the culture and the core, like who now?

is really close enough to that customer that knows how to innovate, how to talk to that customer and make sure they're still meeting that demand. so you'll see bigger brands struggle with that. If they come in and then they bring in their typical CPG, bigger marketing teams, they'll bring in agencies that'll come in typically to try and reach the customer and they're just not as close to it.

so that would be my recommendation. Try and find someone that aligns with your values. If you can stay on to shepherd and, and help the brand, you know, stay on mission, listen to what the customer is going to say and innovate correctly so they don't, you know, mothball it. But if they do be there, be there ready to pick it up out of the, you know, out of the burn pile.

Jordan Buckner (21:33)
my goodness, so much good stuff there. What's next for Uncle Matt's as you look towards the next five years and where you see consumers going and how you plan to have the brand meet them there?

Matt McLean (21:47)
Yeah, I I continue to try just to innovation, you know, where is the consumer going? Where is the millennial and Gen Z going to take the next round? You know, they're not the largest orange juice drinkers, right? I mean, I can understand that. That's what mom and dad and the grandparents drank. They're doing other stuff. But orange juice is still our number one item.

So I have to, you know, we keep picking off customers from Simply and Tropicana and we have a long ways to go before we're saturated that aspect of our company. But at the same time, know, typical customer is declining. So we have to be realistic on, okay, well, how do we get Gen Z and the millennials to like Uncle Matt's? And so we've done other things either with orange juice as a base and added more functional ingredients to it.

we have a product called ultimate immune where we added elderberry and acid roller for vitamin C and zinc and, also D, to go along with orange juice. And then, so it's a beautiful purple. We have a, another one called ultimate defense, which is orange juice with pineapple and ginger. we boost it with turmeric, all root turmeric for inflammation and also with, probiotics for gut health. So doing some other things. So it isn't just orange juice. It's got some more functionality.

different flavor profiles. Also, lemonades, punches that are low sugar. you know, using stevia instead of cane sugar. it's more kid friendly, family friendly, but they still taste delicious. They don't have your typical stevia bite. use a, a stevia version called Rebem and we use high quality lemon juice or strawberry puree or, know, we do one that's a ginger honey lemonade. It's fantastic. It's rainforest honey.

from Brazil, wildflower rainforest honey, then it's also delicious ginger from Peru and fresh squeezed lemon.

Jordan Buckner (23:34)
Matt,

I'll say too that we had some of my daughter's friends over for playdate the other day and had some of Uncle Matt's, the box lemonade that they got to eat there. So I love having it in my household as well.

Matt McLean (23:49)
yeah, awesome. So innovating in the little juice box, same thing, doing the no sugar addeds with the lemonades. They're just healthier. I'm still, I'm an old dad, but I have two teenage girls. started when I was a little later in life. It's too busy chasing entrepreneurship. but I still, so I talk, with them. want to make sure I give them healthy products that I can feel good about that are, you either functional, sugar have some kind of benefit, to.

Jordan Buckner (24:12)
I absolutely love that. Well, I know you've been around for 25 years with this business and hope to see it around for another 25 years plus. Thanks for everything that you've done and growing the business.

Matt McLean (24:23)
Yeah, Jordan, appreciate it. Thank you for your business. You're a customer. That's awesome. And I appreciate this platform to share our story.

Jordan Buckner (24:30)
Thank you.