Jordan Buckner (00:00)
Today I'm joined by Semira Nikou and Bella Hughes who are the co-founders of Better Sour. They're on the mission to reimagine candy through bold global and sour flavors. In the process they're building entirely a new category within the confection space. Today on the podcast we're going to talk about their journey from idea.launch

was like scaling a brand in such a competitive market and how they've navigated challenges along the way. And the cool thing of starting the business as, you know, friends at first. This episode is going to be sponsored by Highbeam, who is the financial partner built for consumer brands. And later in this conversation, we'll hear a little bit just about Semira and Bella chose to rank with Highbeam and the services they offer and some of the things that I work with them on with

food bevy and how it's been able to help them grow. So let's dive on in. Semira and Bella, thanks so much for being on today and welcome to the podcast.

Semira Nikou (00:53)
Thank you, thanks for having us Jordan.

Bella (00:55)
Good to see you.

Jordan Buckner (00:55)
So I'm

to jump in. Bella, you were one of our first podcast guests years ago, kind of during the pandemic. So happy to catch up with you on all things. First off, I would love for you to just give our audience a little overview on the Better Sour and what the product is.

Semira Nikou (01:11)
Well, Better Sour, as the name suggests, we are a celebration of sour flavors. Bella and I grew up in Hawaii. We are daughters of Iranian immigrants. grew up with a whole varied, diverse range of delicious tart flavors that growing up we just didn't see in the candy aisle. We actually, believe it or not, did not eat that much candy growing up. Even though we went on a lot of trick-or-treats, we usually dumped the candy afterward. And we really saw this opportunity, this gap, to bring the flavors that we love.

⁓

sour, bold, and also celebrating flavors that are enjoyed around the world and really true to that natural tartness of the fruits themselves. Of course, using better natural ingredients, but that's almost like the secondary factor about us. It's all about the big, bold, culinary-inspired flavors.

Jordan Buckner (01:58)
I love this, know, sour is one of those things where in the conventional confectionary aisle it's very much just like a tack on, like you'll have like a sour gummies or sour Skittles or something that I think of but there's no real basis in like the fruit that are naturally sour in the world. And so I'd love to hear about like how you decide to bring those sour flavors from around the world into candy and what that experience is about and like why you chose some of the flavors you did.

Bella (02:25)
Yeah, well, I think for us, like Samir alluded to, the flavors are very much inspired about our own story, but also relatable to that big macro trend we're seeing in the rising interest in global flavors across all categories, being from Hawaii and being daughters of Middle Eastern immigrants, our flavor palette skews to flavors from the Middle East. So we've got a pomegranate apricot flavor.

And then of course, Hawaii, our culinary influences there are very much inspired by the greater Asia Pacific region. So we also have a bag that is filled with delicious passion fruit flavor. We call it lily koi in Hawaii. We also have a really nice guava, calamansi lime. And then most excitingly, we're launching October 1st in Sprouts Nationwide, a fourth skew, a tart cherry inspired by the tart cherry that's very popular across the Middle East, West and Central Asia.

Jordan Buckner (03:17)
I love that. think that's so cool. one thing that I absolutely love is the expansion of flavors here. It's interesting because years ago it was called the ethnic aisle in the grocery store. Then I think in a very representative way, it's been talked about as global flavors coming in, which I love. And here being in US based, of course.

I love this idea of almost like a new American sense of flavors, where it's like everyone embracing and incorporating these flavors into their foods, their cuisines, their lives. Now you can just look at my family and the foods that we cook and it's not just like basic, you know, what you would consider, not you, but like what some would consider like, ethnic foods from the past couple of years, but it's really looking into like Vietnamese cooking and

Bella (03:44)
Thank

Jordan Buckner (04:04)
you know, cooking with Thai foods, Ethiopian and like incorporating those within everyday life. And so I love this idea and expression of bringing these flavors just into like the everyday celebrating them, highlighting the flavors, but they're not different or exotic. Like there's part of everyday life. I love to kind of hear about like your experience and just like the flavors that you're eating and consuming and making now just within the business and in your lives.

Semira Nikou (04:28)
And that's good point because we do think these are the flavors of the American palette. mean, just go, Bella and I love going to restaurants, going out for drinks. And these are what we're seeing, like now pomegranate margaritas, or you even can see calamansi here and there. Guava, of course, it's everywhere. Gatorade has a passion fruit flavor. And this is because this is where America's palette is and where it's headed. And we know a majority of Gen Z and millennials even identify as multi-cultured.

cultural. So we don't think the flavors are, I guess, exotic and candy. They're new there. But actually, our flavors that folks have been enjoying. And Bella and I cook all the time ourselves. For example, say pomegranate molasses is a big ingredient in Iranian food. Or even squeezing some calamansi on our fish when we're back home. So this is just the flavors we eat on a daily basis, probably.

Jordan Buckner (05:19)
I'm curious, what's been the biggest challenge of introducing a new candy concept to consumers and retail I know that candy aisle has just like a weird place in shoppers minds?

Bella (05:30)
You know, I wouldn't say there's been a big challenge on the consumer and they really have been quite excited about what we're offering and bringing to the table because when you look at the chocolate set in candy, there are so many exquisite culinary inspired really bespoke offerings, whether you're at a more premium upmarket grocer or a more mass market grocer, but when you get to non-chocolate candy and specifically gummy candy,

It's been like pretty much the same old classic candy and even in the better for you space or more premium candy, they're remaking just with healthier ingredients, what's already on the market. So there's been actually just a lot of joy, excitement and support for what we're bringing this more elevated culinary inspired candy for foodies product. Our biggest challenge has honestly been able to just keep up with the demand. Making candy is very scientific.

and you gotta find the right co-manufacturers to keep up with that demand. You can't just work with just anybody when you're making an art candy is also gelatin free. So kudos to Semira who is formerly an attorney who now is honestly, I feel like a food scientist.

Semira Nikou (06:41)
Really wish I had studied food science

instead, honestly. What was I doing? ⁓

Jordan Buckner (06:43)
Yeah

Oh,

that's so cool. You know, I love it because, you know, personally, like growing up as a kid, I ate a fair share of candies and now as like an adult and having kids, like I don't buy that much. Like I found myself not shopping the candy aisle as an adult, but I love finding these like better for you candies that I can consume that are still like enjoyable. They're fun. They taste good.

but they're not filled with artificial ingredients and flavors and all these other things that are bad. So I love the fact that you are helping to usher in these new flavors and products into the candy aisle. I'm kind of curious, what key moments or wins have been most validating so far as you've started this journey?

Bella (07:24)
Thanks. ⁓

I love that you talked about flavor and I just want to say getting our custom compound flavors, right? So on our bags, you know, you see our flavors and it says natural flavor. They're all custom compounds. So they're made just for us and they're actually derived from the fruits we're sending in like for our tart cherry. We sent it like tart cherry juice.

from Turkey, we sent in like dried cherries from Pakistan just to get that cherry right. So I think what's really special about butter sour and the flavor, flavor, flavor is that we're not just picking up some flavor off the shelf, they're all designed for us. And I think that probably for me is the most arduous task. Like Samir and I go through so much R &D to get that right, that when we finally get it right.

Tartary took us like almost two years since we started, right? The company to get it right. Then finally when it's right and we're ready to launch because we take it so seriously. We're flavor obsessed. I feel like that's a big moment. Sarah, what about you?

Semira Nikou (08:23)
No, totally. And kind of related to that, was really, for example, when my parents tried the product and, in Iran, we have this fruit leather that's made out of the fruits themselves and it's probably the national snack. It's called Lavashak. And for them to eat it and be like, oh, this is like just like Lavashak. It's like, yes, this is what we've been because we the flavors are we've been working on for months and years and to be able to get it right and have them really applaud us and recognize it. I was like, wow, the effort was worth it.

Jordan Buckner (08:52)
Absolutely love that. One thing I always love highlighting on the podcast is like a little bit of some of our, you know, my favorite tools to use. one of the, sponsors today is high beam and they have a banking product out there that helps emerging food and beverage brands. I love to just hear your experience and working with them to kind of build a better sour and how you've been able to incorporate that.

Semira Nikou (09:16)
Yeah, we started working with them relatively recently. All I can say is they've been great partners. They're very nimble, flexible, and you can just tell when they have experience and the willingness to work up with brands at our stage that are in growth mode. And we've enjoyed working with them.

Jordan Buckner (09:33)
That's really cool. Yeah. I've just started working with high beam as well for food bevy and using them for banking. And it's really cool because one of the biggest things that I've seen is like our cashflow issues and just dealing with cash conversion cycle. One thing that I've been able to take advantage of is like their high yield banking account. And so we'll have, when we have cash that's in the bank, that's being, you know, planned for a use, it's actually gaining interest.

and I think they're at like a over 4 % interest rate, almost like a high yield savings account of being able to have that money and that cash grow so that our money is actually making money in the bank without having to switch between different accounts. And so it's really cool that you've been able to use their services and I've been able to use that for my brand. So I always recommend that for founders if you're looking for a banking partner that understands emerging CPG brands and how to work with you.

So with that, I'm also curious if there's been any other types of tools or partners or anything that you've used to grow the business, any things that you recommend just that you see out there for founders to take a look at because as you both know, like building a company is really challenging and I know our listeners are always looking to understand just, you know, anything that they should know about as a company that might be helpful in their process.

Bella (10:53)
I would say a CPG specific fractional CFO. So I think that is really important from just the start. We work with a fantastic one. We'll give her a shout out, Elena Minton. And I think just from even product launch date, just to have your financials built out, to understand your cogs, your trade spend, your marketing, how everything rolls in together and anytime you're about to raise.

That's really been a great tool for us to set us up for success.

Jordan Buckner (11:19)
I love that. think that's really cool. I appreciate you giving that shout out. One thing I did want to highlight is that you two actually started the business from based on your friendship before. And so what is it like building a business as friends?

Semira Nikou (11:33)
I know everyone says don't do it. ⁓ And I can't speak for all friends, but I can speak for us and say, Bella, I think we're having a lot of fun. And there's something about these deep old friendships where you've also been through everything together. You've had all kinds of fights. I joke we went from hair pulling to silent treatments to whatever you name it. Yeah.

Bella (11:50)
We've known each other for 38 years. The hair pulling, we were like five.

I just want everyone to know that. This is not like some recent thing.

Semira Nikou (11:54)
We're not pulling at each other's

right now. you know the other person and most importantly, you know how to deal with conflict and deal with disagreement because I think that is the, I recommend to anyone who can have a co-founder in startups, do it because it is such a hard, difficult journey by yourself. But it's like a marriage. You'd rather have, better have a good partner or no partner at all. So I think with friendships and old ones, you know each other, you know what you're getting into. Of course, there's a lot of new things

Bella (12:13)
Thanks.

Semira Nikou (12:23)
things we learn about each other along the way and I think our friendship probably has never been stronger. But at least there's that trust there and you know each other's work ethic. overall I would say I recommend it if you have that kind of a friend in your life.

Bella (12:36)
Yeah, I could not imagine a better co-founder and just there's so much trust that you need. I couldn't imagine doing this with just someone I met at a random, like I don't know, just founder mixer, just that level of someone that you can trust with your social security number and that you can trust to make really, really great decisions all the time and to have kind of...

big scary conversations with is just wonderful, that emotional trust. So I feel that a lot of times when people invite us to speak, a few times we would invite to speak, we basically convince everyone to quit their day job and go start a company with their best friend. They're like, maybe we shouldn't have invited them as motivational speakers, because now my team members want to quit the job and go start a company.

Jordan Buckner (13:20)
⁓ my gosh, I

love that. I think that's so cool. And you're right, because so many founders who I meet and talk to you feel the pressure of starting a business on their own. And like, I would love to have someone to share this journey with both behinds and the lows. But it's really tough when you start a business and you don't know the person very well, you made me a network in it, maybe have a little bit in common. But as you know, right, how someone presents at a

event or like a couple times working together is completely different than building a long term relationship and business relationship with them. So I love that you've been able to to build that up, which is so cool. I'm curious in what advice kind of similar with that, which you share with CPG founders who are trying to build a business or grow a new category. I think when we first talked, that was like a completely different era of building a CPG brand. I'm curious to know like what's

what's kind of different around about building a business in 2025, 2026 that you're learning along the way.

Semira Nikou (14:22)
Well, I did not build a business before ⁓ Better Sour, you know, I was a lawyer before this, so Bella will have more insight and you know her experience prior companies. I will say just what I know of the industry and you know kind of seeing certain changes even from a few years ago, at least for CPG, just retail how important it remains and you know for us it's been the focus from the beginning. You D2C, e-commerce of course complements that.

Bella (14:25)
Thanks.

Semira Nikou (14:49)
But more and more you kind of see that people still go shopping. That's at the end of the day when you're going to get the bulk of your sales. So make sure you understand that these various channels, you find the right people to work with and the right team to help expand there.

Jordan Buckner (15:00)
you

Bella (15:04)
⁓ I think it's always been a marathon, not a sprint. So just knowing that and knowing you have to make investments that you're not gonna see an immediate ROI. It's really about like, what's it gonna look like six, 12, 18, 24 months down the line. It's very capital intensive. I think it's virtually impossible to bootstrap today. Maybe it was eight or 10 years ago. So you need to be very good at fundraising.

and have access to capital unfortunately, because it just costs a lot to play in retail and it costs a lot to make physical stuff and to ensure that it's not too high in education concepts because your product can not only work in super urban, you know, maybe where the trends start first. For a brand to be beyond a niche brand and really have an impact, has to have legs and you can't have to also be a PSA.

for something super novel and new. It needs to make sense in like 12 seconds to 15 seconds.

Jordan Buckner (15:58)
Thank you.

Yeah, I totally hear that. because that was the one of the main hit wins I ran into with my brand TeaSquares that I ran is because we were making a tea infused energy snack and literally no one has heard of that before. And every day it felt like I had to educate every single person on where their product was. And not only did it take time and energy, but it's very expensive. And as you mentioned, right, like it took takes a lot of money.

to build a company and then in order to educate customers as well, it takes a lot too. So I love that. And I also love that you are taking an approach of building, running a marathon with the business. I'm kind of curious on where do you see things going in the next 12 to 24 months as you were talking about? Like what is the future of Better Sour look like and what do you hope to achieve?

Bella (16:46)
Yeah, well, we're going to end the year in like more than 4,000 doors. So we're really excited about that. We're everywhere from being sold on the United Airlines flights to and from Hawaii. This month we're launching in total line nationally. We're right now in the Raley's Innovation Set. We're rolling out at the end of the month in Kenny Drugs. October 1st, like we mentioned earlier, we have a really wonderful relationship with Sprouts. So they're rolling out our new Tart Cherry exclusively first.

in Q4 and then I'll be available to everyone in Q1 of next year. And we have a couple other really, really big things in the mix, but we're not ready to share it just quite yet. But very, very excited for retail and some other channels coming aboard and of course for us as a brand, just staying focused. I mean, we're going to end this year.

Jordan Buckner (17:30)
you

Bella (17:38)
It'll be like our third year in business. We launched May 2023 and this is just our fourth SKU. A lot of brands initially launched with four SKUs. So we've been really intentional, really mindful, kind of how we've been playing, you know, the game.

Jordan Buckner (17:51)
Perfect. love that. And I'm so excited to see what's next. I love Better Sour. We've been able to feature them in a number of projects that I've been working on and in our food baby insider box. And so excited to have been able to get that out to so many people to try your candies. So I'm a believer in the fan and can't wait to see where the business goes. Semira thanks so much for being on the podcast today and sharing a little bit more about your story.

Bella (18:10)
Thank you. ⁓

Semira Nikou (18:14)
Thanks, Jordan and was a lot of fun.

Bella (18:17)
And we love  you