Jordan Buckner (00:00)
Gen Z is not shopping the same way millennials did, and they're definitely not responding to the same packaging design playbook. So I'm really excited

really talk through how Gen Z is discovering brands. They're doing it online first a lot of times. Some are doing it in retail, but they're forming opinions fast. They have a different design aesthetic. I've seen a lot of prioritization from maximalism over minimalism. And many of the signals that worked for millennials like claims heavy packaging and rigid design rules just don't hit in the same way anymore. So to talk through this, I have invited on our Foodbevy branding expert, Sanders, who's the founder of Nuex Creative. And we're going to be breaking down how

Gen Z discover products and how design can impact their purchasing decisions. Welcome back to the show, Sanders.

Sanders (00:45)
Yeah. Hey, Jordan. Great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Jordan Buckner (00:48)
Alright, so, you know, how Gen Z are discovering products for the first time? From what you've seen in your research and just looking at branding, what does it take for a brand to get noticed amongst this younger consumer group now?

Sanders (01:02)
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely evolved, right? Boomers were more of finding items in stores physically. Our generation started seeing things more online from analog to digital. But Gen Z is a digital first approach. And a lot of them are actually using TikTok or Instagram in place of search engines. I think it was around 40 % estimated Gen Z consumers are actually using.

online social platforms like Instagram and TikTok instead of search engines.

think that has evolved as well, right? If you go back, know, our parents and boomer generations, they had real food. And so they trusted brands because they didn't have processed food, right? And then processed food was introduced in our generation and you have things like McDonald's, which literally doesn't even decompose, right? The animals won't even eat it. And so now we had to start putting those claims.

to kind of call attention like what is healthy, what is fake food, what's not. The problem is I think the transparency has also evolved for the Gen Z because there's that pendulum of when you start introducing things and it starts becoming healthy, you create those claims, but then marketers find a way to kind of cheat that and you still have workarounds like vitamin water having a ton of sugar, right? Or something that's advertised as sugar-free, but then when you read the back ingredients, you realize, hey, this has sucralose and it's got artificial sweeteners, which are even worse.

than regular sugar for mental health and brain and everything like that. so Gen Z started to see through that. So a lot of these big claims, they still have to check the back. They still have to check what are the ingredients inside. And so I think there's that transparency evolution of us using packaging design to kind of shortcut and go directly to that because they're gonna have to check the back. They're gonna have to check the ingredients. They're not necessarily gonna fully trust those claims.

unless they're third party certified. And that's where I think the evolution is is changing is they're looking more for third party certification like USDA organic versus just saying these are all natural ingredients or using marketing language that implies it's healthy, but maybe when you check the ingredients, it's not right. RxBAR is a great example of that. They changed where they, they changed their whole packaging design years ago and they just listed what the ingredients were on the front.

They made it very simple, very transparent, and it's used as a really great use case today as an example of showing full transparency. So a lot of Gen Z is looking for what are the actual ingredients and not the claims. They want the proof over the promise. Another thing is sustainability. You've probably heard the term greenwashing or some people call it healthwashing where you put a sustainability claim, but...

then you're really not a sustainable company or a sustainable product. And I think it was estimated that 88 % of Gen Z's consumers distrust brands eco-friendly claims. They're going to look into it. And if they discover that you're not truthful about the claims, then that can really hurt your sales. I think there's also somewhat of a protein bubble that's a little bit cracking and popping or certain ingredients that we have a bubble where we're over-advertising them.

And two things are happening, like one culturally, maybe millennials for example might care a lot about protein, Gen Z, you know, have a large demographic that maybe isn't exercising as much or care as much, but you're also being desensitized to it as well, right? You're seeing protein in everything, then you start not trusting the brands that maybe don't have quality protein or the need for it. And so...

Jordan Buckner (04:36)
You know, it kind of reminds

me of when I start seeing there are wines being labeled as gluten-free and vegan, right? And you're like, obviously wine is gluten-free and vegan. Like, why do have to say that? It'd be like, label it like, this steak has 32 grams of protein, right? Like, it's steak, like, of course it has protein in it.

Sanders (04:42)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

And so they're really looking

over the promise right? Like for millennials, the front of the package was kind of our resume for the health claims, right? And it worked really well. And I think it's still very valid and very beneficial. But for Gen Z, the front of the package is more of a vibe, more of an aesthetic.

⁓ The proof of health has to be moved to the back of the pack to some extent and into the ingredients list like I mentioned or just having transparent ingredients and then on to the third party certifications. They're gonna value that a lot more than just an ad hoc claim. And brands need to stop shouting those claims and start building trust through transparency, tangible benefits that support like the modern holistic view.

Jordan Buckner (05:36)
You know, I'm kind of interested in seeing if creator approved labeling makes it on the packaging. There's a person by the name of Bobby Parrish, and I'm sure if you're familiar with him, he was coming to FlavCity, but he basically...

started going to Costco and all these stores reviewing products and has this list on products that are approved, right? And then he has this thing called Bobby Approved, there's an app. I'll use it sometimes to scan products in the store as a quick check. And I'm curious to see, I don't think I've really seen it much, but if products start physically putting a Bobby Approved stamp or seal on their packaging as a shorthand, and whereas people would trust more...

non-profit kind of third-party certifications, if there's gonna be any movement towards creator, certify, their recommended products, or if that just changes too much for it to physically show up on the product packaging.

Sanders (06:28)
That's actually a really good question. mean, in general, haven't seen a ton of that, and I think that it was definitely an opportunity for that. I could definitely see that coming, although most things are more nationwide versus cultural. So I think there's some risk and mitigation there that it might not blow up as much as like a USDA certification, for example. But at the same time, Gen Z trusts online reviews or even...

influencers substantially at basically the same level as a personal recommendation. Like that paradigm has shifted and as going back to earlier we said we wanted to do digital first. They're looking for user generated content. They're also looking for like user generated approvals and recommendations as well. And it's definitely growing in popularity like you mentioned.

Jordan Buckner (07:11)
Yum, I'm curious how

you think that might affect things because I was just reading a survey from I think YouTube where 65 % of Gen Z that they surveyed see themselves as influencers or content creators and it almost creates a self cycle where when you search a brand or a product, a lot of those people might be either paid or attempting to build a profile or brand to get paid in the future and so I wonder if that

Sanders (07:38)
Mm-hmm.

Jordan Buckner (07:41)
arose trust or if it's like people just already like they can easily through see you through which things are maybe more like actually a paid ads or sponsor kind of influencer pros versus authentic reviews.

Sanders (07:53)
I think that's a good question, it's valid. And I think the pendulum will continue to kind of swing each way, right? If you look at when influencer marketing first came in, everyone trusted all influencers. And then the bigger you got, know, like now we know if Kim Kardashian is posting something, she's getting paid millions of dollars. And that where that shifted is the micro versus macro influencers, right? The macro influencers use for brand awareness, not for trust and not for sales conversions. There's a big misconception there, right?

Jordan Buckner (08:04)
Yeah.

Sanders (08:22)
because you're gonna get that big influence and the big brand awareness, but they don't trust them. They don't trust the Kim Kardashian's of the world. They're gonna trust those micro influencers that are like more in route, more connected to their audience. And I think the same thing is gonna happen and evolve with even at the micro level.

I think consumers

to start seeing through what is paid for, what is not.

But think they're still gonna have, Gen Z in general has a bigger connection to online trust than we've seen from previous generations.

Jordan Buckner (08:55)
So when it comes to branding and packaging, right, some of the physical elements as they show up in the brand identity,

what kind of design changes are you seeing coming into the market that's signaling a different type of product pack or maybe like the brand names are just really large or bright and colorful packaging or things like that.

Sanders (09:13)
Yeah, so there's like a few, you're talking about like the design language. Yeah, so with the design languages, there's multiple trends that are coming in. One kind of set the stage a little bit, I will say, is that a lot of the design language and trends with Gen Z looked at as almost like pieces of a puzzle. Like you can have overlapping design styles and design languages, and you can use components from each. It's not...

Jordan Buckner (09:17)
Yes.

Sanders (09:36)
necessarily just minimalism or just like a vintage style. right now like dopamine design or I always butcher the name. It's like dopamine-nerd-jick, but I always just say dopamine design. That's a huge trend that I really love. And it's about like having instant joy and kind of like riots the mood, altering colors, contrasting colors, things that you normally wouldn't see. But it still lives in the world of

minimalism to some extent. It really builds a unique brand experience. That's what customers are looking for is they're looking for experiences. So with every design language, we're seeing like dopamine design for kind of the instant joy, bold minimalism, which just elevates the existing direction of minimalism, but a little bit louder. We're seeing things like the neo-vintage style, that future retro-ism is pretty big and growing even more. You see that like in video games a lot, like Arc Raiders.

Distorted realism is another one that you're starting to see even like in cultural brands that does a really great job. And then like freak design where you're actually trying to make the ugly is cool. Like an example that would be liquid death where they've hypernation to say we're going to make kind of a rock, rock metal type design into their packaging. Or another one for like building trust is like indie aesthetics where it looks almost like do it yourself, authentic. Overall, they're looking for

experiences, not just great design, they're looking for something that does release dopamine that gets them excited, you know, almost like, I don't know if I'm allowed to say on the podcast, like the design porn, you know, they want things that they're that get them excited when they're scrolling when they're seated on digital screens, because that's where they're seeing it first, or that they can take photos with. And they're basically trying to see authentic, like authenticity in design, as well as build out more of an experience.

Jordan Buckner (11:05)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, there's very much a artistic bent to a lot of this. And I think those feelings of like, make me feel something, as you mentioned, from the product and even looking at designs from, you know, like Fish Wife, the Tin Seafood brand, like it's a very artistic aesthetic on the packaging. It looks, you hand drawn or in...

There's a brand Rotten, the candy brand, and it's kind of like a gross, kind of grotesque aesthetic to it, but it's very much like working with an artist to actually hand draw the packaging, right, and bringing in some of that aesthetic, which is really interesting, because I think it lends itself into people either like, yeah, I love this, this connects with me, or it doesn't, but it makes people feel something one way or the other.

Sanders (12:07)
Yeah, absolutely and I will say like for brands, the key for brands is not to just pick a design language off a trend list because like I said, a lot of these trends you're not just living and breathing individually, they're key components, right? If you take in like the surrealist design, a lot of times that's on the logo but that could be matched with bold minimalism or with dopamine design. But they're looking to understand the why behind the trend and that's where the authenticity comes in because

The design style that you pick needs to match both your brand, your brand narrative, as well as the product and the product experience.

Jordan Buckner (12:43)
How important is it for existing brands and market to adjust their design aesthetic to match something that might align more with a Gen Z aesthetic? Like is that seen as potentially coming off as like inauthentic? Be like, wait, why did you like make this change? Or like can brands do it? if so, what are the steps that you need to take?

Sanders (13:03)
So that's a great question. I mean, one of the reasons I wanted to be on this podcast is this is a hot question that we get asked constantly. I think any business that's trying to stay relevant is going to try to target Gen Z and ask that question. How do we target them? Because you have to. You have to target the next demographic and the next generation coming in. Otherwise, as your demographic and your current audience gets older and they retire or die in the future, you're going to run out of customers, right? So.

you have to go into, but you need to be ⁓ authentic. If you try to just follow trends, for example, it's not gonna work. And so that's where I said that you have to match the style of your brand with your brand narrative and with your brand message. They can see through if it's not authentic. And I think if it doesn't match, then sometimes that...

the boldness or trying to follow a trend, trying to target Gen Z will actually hurt you because you're not gonna be ⁓ authentic. And there's a couple of things that can hurt you there is if you have boldness that sacrifices clarity. You should still have clarity of your product, of what it is, who it's for, and how it helps them. That is one of the key things. You also need to be authentic and your design needs to...

Feel authentic versus deceptive right needs the taste versus the design if the product look one way and has you know Let's say I'm just for example if it's very bold if it's loud or if you use like freak design like liquid death But it doesn't match the target audience or the product then it you're gonna you're gonna have some confusion or It misalignment with the target audience right everything has to align with the target audience with anything to do you have to look at the target audience and then the market

You look at the problem, the solution, and then you can create the product that matches that. But the design has to match that and the authenticity behind it. And if you try to follow the trend of, you know, one of the trends is that freak designer or even like the dopamine or bold minimalism, for example, if it doesn't align, if you do random just to be random, then it won't have that personality. You can't just make things ⁓ to fit into the mold of Gen Z.

because then you won't be authentic and that can really hurt your sales as well.

Jordan Buckner (15:16)
Yeah, I think that's so interesting because I think then a lot of the brands I know who are existing in market, they're like, how do I start adjusting? Like if I should do anything? And I think they're coming from a place where it feels, I think, you know, this is maybe a heavy word, but it feels performative in a way a little bit, right? Like I want to target this demographic and whenever you think that, that's always like already not authentic, right? And so how do you then start to manifest that for your brand? And I don't think,

I mean, do you think every brand should look to change or do you think that like not every brand needs to adapt with these design aesthetics?

Sanders (15:51)
No, I don't think every brand needs to change. I think if you're changing just to fit a mold or just to align with Gen Z, then you're going to miss the point and you're actually going miss Gen Z altogether, right? They're looking for authenticity. And the short answer is don't follow the trends, be who you are as a brand. Now, you might need to update your designs so they don't look outdated and they look more contemporary, but that's a reimagination of an

continuous evolution of your brand that all brands need to do. But you shouldn't be, hey, we're going, you we've been A, B, and C, and I want to now change and pivot to X, Z just to get that consumer base. They're going to see through that, right? They're going to see through that authenticity or that lack of authenticity. And it's better to actually first identify who your brand is, what your brand narrative is, what is the style that you're looking for. And you can make those updates and you can try to pivot and align with Gen Z.

But if you just chase trends or try to get them without being authentic to the brand voice, the narrative and the experience, they're gonna see through that and that's actually gonna hurt you even more.

Jordan Buckner (16:55)
Yeah, I think that's so important. So don't just jump into something without having a clear strategy behind it.

So if you are working on a limited budget, how do you go about approaching this?

Sanders (17:04)
that is a really good question, especially for startups, right? Because you're on a limited budget, you're looking at everything, and you're asking yourself, what do I do? What are the biggest high impact? And I think the two biggest high impact changes that you could make that are evergreen, and it doesn't have to do with Gen Z, it has to do with any...

demographic that you're trying to target and It's probably first color and topography because that's the first thing that's gonna grab your attention Whether you're doing peripheral selling and trying to grab their attention on the shelf or trying to stop them Online when they're scrolling the you can use contrast and other tactics, but the color and topography are immediately gonna set the tone They're gonna set the stage And then after that is clarity the visual hierarchy the message hierarchy

the customers have to know exactly what the product is, who it's for, and what the benefits are. And if you make the design too busy or too loud, you're going to lose them. You only have about three to 12 seconds to really identify if you're going to purchase the product or even pay more attention to the product. And you need to convert them quickly. And there's usually about three things on a packaging design that you can have as the primary elements to grab their attention before they dive

probably the two I would start with first.

Jordan Buckner (18:11)
No, I think it was so exciting.

And then do you see just within there, like, if you're taking one of these designs, you're like, hey, I want to find an artist to design some really cool packaging. Have you worked with any designers to kind of create custom illustrations? you know, how do you kind of go about doing that?

Sanders (18:16)
that these are findings are this.

Yeah, on my team, we have expert illustrators that we do custom illustrations. We can do all types of custom designs. And so we can make every flavor unique to the brand. We can create custom illustrations for the brand or marketing material or motion graphics or 3D animation. And so we have all of that in house that.

looks amazing, but also is very strategic and where we design everything to actually convert and increase those sales for the customers or the clients.

Jordan Buckner (18:56)
if you're making packaging design changes, do you expect that to impact sales? And how do you think about the ROI from it?

Sanders (19:03)
Yeah, absolutely. Your packaging is gonna, you're not there to demo a product at a store. You're definitely not there to demo a product online. I mean, there are marketing ways that you can do that, but your packaging has to tell your brand's story. It has to inform the customer what the product is, who it's for, what the benefits are, what the value is for them specifically. And it has to do that quickly. And it has to tell your brand's story and your mission behind it.

And so that canvas has to be the narrator, even if you're not there in the store or online. And when you optimize your designs, you can optimize it to one, stand out from a competition. You can optimize it so that it actually speaks directly to your ideal target audience and your customers, not the wrong audience. And so that's how you build more loyal customers. And then it has to tell enough ⁓ information to help increase those conversions.

And so it becomes a sales tool when done properly, because especially in a digital first approach, not only can it help you go viral, help you spread your product aware more visually, but it also can help increase those sales for you as well.

Jordan Buckner (20:13)
That's awesome. Sanders, thanks so much for joining me today and talking through this new approach to packaging. If you're listening and you're either creating a new product or a new brand or have an existing one and you want to understand how your branding may adapt to be more accessible to different demographics, definitely reach out to Sanders. He's happy to talk about how Nuex Creative can help you. So check out the details in the show notes. Sanders, thanks for being on today.

Sanders (20:39)
Thanks for having me, Jordan.