Jordan Buckner (00:00)
Today I'm joined by Rip Pruisken who's the CEO and co-founder of Rip Van, a company that's rethinking what indulgent snacks can be. Rip Van is betting that consumers don't want to give up cookies and sweets, and they simply want products that deliver the indulgence and nostalgia they love while really fitting into what they want to eat today. I have been a fan of the product for years now. It was actually one of the first.

products within the natural halo that I tried as I was getting into this industry and have fallen in love with it. So Rip, I'm excited to have you on the podcast today. Welcome.

Rip Pruisken (00:35)
Thank you, Jordan. Pleasure. Thanks for having me. So

Jordan Buckner (00:38)
Your main product that you started was a Stroopwaffle. And I remember when I first heard about it, I had no idea what it is. And I bet many of our listeners still might not as well. So can you describe what the product is and why you started making it?

Rip Pruisken (00:51)
Sure. So the Stroopwaffal is basically a really thin cookie with a wattle waffle pattern with a caramel filling. And a lot of people don't know this, but the way a Stroopwaffle is made is you basically have a ball of dough under a waffle iron, which was baked, and then that really, really thin, less than a quarter of an inch thick cookie is sliced in half, separated, filled with caramel, put together and then cooled.

And that's why you have this delicious crispy chewy texture that is the signature of the product. It's really popular in the Netherlands. You know, over 320 million Stroopwaffles are consumed by the Dutch a year. That's, you know, approximately 20 Stroopwaffles a year on average per person. And about a billion are are produced in the Netherlands, you know, two-thirds for export as well. So it's also internationally becoming a more popular product.

Jordan Buckner (01:43)
That's amazing. I think, you grew up in the Netherlands and so I'm sure is extremely familiar in the US, right? I think I've never seen a street waffle until actually saw Rip Van. And I remember the time being like, this is delicious. I love waffles, American waffles, Belgian waffles, liege waffles, like everything. And so this is the first time I had it as as kind of like a a sweet snack and thought it was delicious. You know, over time you have built out this portfolio.

of other snacks and it's interesting. Let me know if this is your approach, but it almost feels like you are bringing better for you European style indulgent snacks to the US market. Is that how you've been thinking about it? Thank you.

Rip Pruisken (02:25)
Thank

you for for those comments. I think, starting with the Stroop Offal, it was my favorite treat growing up. We all have our favorite treat or snack as a kid. And I was just so surprised, Stroopwaffals weren't in the US. And America is the cookie consuming country. you know, cookies are, yeah, I think over twelve billion in terms of retail consumption in the US. So I thought, well, why not bring the Stroopwaffal over to America?

I think similarly to your point, there are a lot of other really tasty, unique products that are quite common in Europe that aren't yet available or available in a very nascent capacity in the United States. And so, yes, the idea was to basically bring unique treats over to the US, but with a very important distinction, and that is, you know, make these treats as tasty as treats should be.

But significantly healthier. and that's what we're really trying to do. I

Jordan Buckner (03:22)
Think that's

a really smart approach because as it's a huge market here. Everything's saturated with a lot of the same products and people are just putting protein and things in there. But I think there's this really fun, unique aspect of you're bringing like very familiar ingredients, right? There's like chocolate, wafers, you know, nuts, like things that are in American snacks as well, but and these interesting, unique form factors here, but they're very common in Europe. And so it's a

cool part like the discovery, the feeling of there's something new without being so unfamiliar that it's a different taste profile. So I'm I'm excited about that and cool to see that innovation. And you've been at this for a while. So you started Rip Van in 2010 and now 16 years later you're still running the company. really curious how has Rip Van survived this long and how has it changed over time?

Rip Pruisken (04:12)
Yeah, it's it's definitely been a journey for sure. I would say there are probably three parts to the business. you know, the business was kind of a fun college experiment back in 2010 to your point, but actually turned into real business in 2012. and that's when my co-founder and I decided to really expand the distribution of our first product, the Stroopwaffle. The focus on Stroopwaffles lasted a while.

It lasted, around seven years. And in that time, you know, there are many ups and downs, like many businesses as as they start. But particularly, we set up a factory in 2017, shortly after, you know, getting national distribution in Starbucks. And, you know, the the line caught on fire, burnt the circuitry, and we basically had to save the business. and that

led to stage two, which is we did some soul searching. We're like, well, if we're going to allocate so much time to building a business, we need to make sure that we're having impact. And we didn't really, we always wanted to have impact, but we didn't really understand how to have impact. And so we came up with this idea, back seven, eight years ago that reducing sugar is going to be o the way. And doing that using clean ingredients, using fiber

as as the foundation is going to be the way that's going to be relevant because the world we believed was going to go more plant-based, more clean ingredient. And that's what we really did. So phase two was actually working with a bunch of PhDs and trying to lower the sugar in our soup waffle product, you know, from 14 grams, then we got it down to 12, down to nine, eight, and then down to three grams. And so once we figure that out,

Not only did we have a unique product, but now we had nutritional benefits, right? Fib and sugar reduction that would resonate with consumers as a bridge, right? For people that didn't know what struop baffles were, but were also looking for better free products. And then stage three, and this happened right during COVID. So most of our business was food service, and all that business went away.

and so we had to reinvent ourselves again. It's like kind of three companies in one. And at that time, we started selling the Stroopwaffels, Rip Van Waffles online, and you know, we became the number one selling Stroopwafel in the United States online, but then one of the best selling products online with the Stroopwaffels. And then we got into Costco as well. And I think those two growth spurts really allowed our business to rebound.

And then from there we had a dedicated consumer base where online where we could test products out. And in Europe, we realized, as we discussed earlier on in the conversation, that there are a lot of unique products that aren't available in the US. And what we figured out was that the technology we developed to, within the dough and the caramel of the stroop waffles.

The same principles could be repurposed in the other building blocks to make up sweet snacks. So coatings, cocoa fillings, fruit fillings, and so forth. And so we basically figured out how to make these building blocks and then start inventing products, testing them on Amazon. And the successful ones we then start to scale, which brings us to today. So a lot of near-death moments, a lot of soul searching along the way, but

We're really proud and we're really grateful that we're here.

Jordan Buckner (07:32)
So rip, I think every founder goes through one of those moments where they have to do a little bit of soul searching and try to navigate the journey of transitions, pivots. Take me back to maybe that moment even for COVID since it's the most recent, in terms of obviously like the business from the sales side disappeared because there were not any fruit service accounts really open. What did you have to go through to build?

the keep the foundation of the business, but like build a new distribution model. And how have those learnings of like navigating multiple challenges changed how you think about just the foundation of the business, like how much cash you have on hand, how do you short your operations and the redundancies to really help other founders think about how to navigate those challenges?

Rip Pruisken (08:19)
Yeah.

Jordan Buckner (08:20)
And sorry for taking you back to the cooking thing. Most of us are like, I don't want to think about that anymore. But even just more generally, how do you think about building that foundation? It it's

Rip Pruisken (08:28)
It's a great question. And I think it boils down to honestly one principle. You have a certain set of constraints. So it may be runway, right? And time for the business to stay alive. and what you're trying to do is you're trying to focus your energy on the most important things that allow you to get through. And so to answer your question in COVID.

Our food service business was basically fueling our business. It was generating profit, and that was allowing us to scale. And fortunately, we're able to get some loans like a number of other companies. So even though the sales went away, we had some runway. And with that runway, we had to figure out a where can we build top line? And then let's focus on trying to build it. And so the two places we saw were.

online because people were at home and they were buying online. So that was a natural place to go. And our online business was pretty underdeveloped by then. So we really focused on, okay, well, what do we need to do to become best in class? and let's start with Amazon, because the cost of acquisition on Amazon is a lot lower than on a website. So the risk if we have good repeat of marketing and growing our business

was was lower there. And then Costco honestly was, hey, let's try and find a price pack that works for Costco, that gives them a lot of value, given that the business was larger than when we early s started earlier. Make in an offer that, you know, is hard for Costco to refuse to at least give it a try. And so it was an experiment. And fortunately the experiment worked and allowed us to scale.

Jordan Buckner (10:07)
Yeah, I think that's exciting. And one thing I've been learning myself over time from a lot of entrepreneurs is that throughout the life of your business, you will have lots of moments where your business will be up at it. Like it just happens because of time. And the best founders learn, expect that to happen, build in some systems in place to help navigate those challenges and then ex make decisive action kind of when it happens.

It sounds like you went through that similar process of saying, okay, we've been through this before, we've had to adapt the business, but you have we have a strong product, we have a strong foundation, and we can go in a different channel, maybe, but the product's gonna still stay the same. I think that's just really powerful.

Rip Pruisken (10:50)
I think to your point, it's, A, you believe in the thesis or you have a vision. And if you have challenges that come your way, it's human to doubt yourself, right? It's human to say, hey, is my is my vision gonna materialize? Or, you know, was I accurate? Or, you know, do we actually have product market fit? And all these things go through your mind.

But I think the point is that if you've committed yourself to see a vision through, I think you need to suspend that fear as hard as it is and focus on the primary task, which is where do you focus your energy to get through? And I think that it's also quite a freeing mental state to be in because you can't really control the outcome. You can only control your inputs.

And by focusing in on those inputs and trying to do the best you can with those inputs, you're increasing your probability for that outcome, even if it's low probability, to be higher. And then at the end of it, whether you succeed or not, you feel you've given your all. And there's a satisfaction that comes out of that, independent of outcome. And so it's it's that mantra that you're playing in your head, fighting against the fear to make sure that you're.

Focusing your energy on getting to the outcome versus dissipating your energy and freezing along the way. but it's really hard. It's it's extremely hard during those moments. And

Jordan Buckner (12:15)
On top

of that, you've built RipVan in a mostly bootstrapped way. Tell me about how you've funded and financed the journey over time. Yes.

Rip Pruisken (12:27)
So we did raise a little bit of capital, but a very, very small amount for, you know, the first gosh, twelve plus years. and the reason why is because I think the investment landscape in FMCG businesses, you know, was radically different earlier on. And so the amount of dilution there was earlier on was a lot higher than you face, you know, today.

And so we wanted to make sure that we could steward the vision of the business and not raise capital too quickly, too early. And so we had to get really creative. We had to figure out, you know, what channels can we get into that don't have high cost barriers. And so, you know, we we went into natural and grocery a lot later later, which is counterintuitive because most FMCG brands start there.

And so that I think resourcefulness led us to, build a business in food service, build a business online and build a business in club. And then after that came convenience, came, natural, came grocery and and and so forth.

Jordan Buckner (13:32)
Yeah, I

think that's a good way of of building it. I see a lot of brands launching grocery, maybe on e-commerce, but groceries very soon. They get an opportunity from Target, from Kroger, from Walmart. A lot of these national retailers make a big splash in terms of bringing in young brands. But then to ignore the support that they raise a lot of money, end up spending a lot of money.

and have a hard time at building that awareness. Cause that's the one thing that people don't really teach you is that in grocery, you need awareness and household penetration in order to drive sales because people aren't going to just pick up your product off the shelf in most cases. And even brings back like I like your launch and start. So Starbucks is where I first discovered Rip Van and it's because there's like four options, right? on the shelf. I want chocolate, gum

the stroop waffle or a piece of fruit. it's a very much smaller decision set. And so it's easier to do some discovery there. So I like that approach that you took of like, all right, we have, you know, limited funds. We had a little bit, but let's strategically build the business where we can be most profitable first before going to some of those larger investment accounts like grocery. Right. And I think that was a really smart way of doing it.

with the product and speaking about that, there's this kind of I'm curious to hear your sense because there's balance between people understand desserts and indulge in products, but a lot of the formats that you've released, like the Stroop Waffle, are relatively new for American consumers. And so how what did you face any educational challenges in terms of like finding ways to like teach people what a Stroopwaffle was, or was it enough that they understood it was a sweet carmely indulgence?

Rip Pruisken (15:17)
It's honestly a great question. And, you know, we often talk about, you know, what would we have done differently? and like even with the funding and kind of the way we went about it, it's a double-edged sword, right? I mean, if you take a bootstrapped approach, it usually is going to take longer. and but I mean, you're also gonna be able to steward the business. same thing with inventing a product.

or inventing a new subcategory, right? As that subcategory builds and you're the market leader in that subcategory, that's a pretty big moat to have. so that's the positive side of starting with Stroopwaffles, but no one knew what a Stroopwaffle was. And it was in insanely hard early on. And we had to basically focus on low barrier to entry.

instant consumable distribution to drive trial for the Stroopwaffle. What's really interesting is that when we launched our wafers within a year online, we sold more wafers than we sold waffles. because you know wafers is a 200 mil plus category, subcategory moving cookie. And Americans, a lot of Americans grew up with wafers.

And so there's this instant familiarity, with, a wafer, even though the thickness was different, the shape was different from what they're used to, it was similar enough that they're able to identify their no nostalgic childhood favorite product and, give our product a try.

Jordan Buckner (16:47)
My grandmother gave me vanilla and strawberry wafers as a kid. So yes, very nostalgic myself.

Rip Pruisken (16:53)
Yeah, but I think to your point, I think where we're trying to go now is we're trying to bring products that are familiar enough to Americans. so there's that instant link of joy and familiarity to that experience, but at the same time, have something different. And that difference I think is really important because when people enjoy treats, it's kind of a form of entertainment.

And think about it like watching a movie. if you watch the same series over and over again can get a little boring. But if you have something different or you try something that you haven't had before but is somewhat familiar, it's a nice change and then also can can more easily build a new routine.

Jordan Buckner (17:35)
One thing I find really fascinating as well is the lower sugar aspect of your product. And I think you've done a really good job of stating the lower sugar amount without calling it a low sugar product. And I was even looking at the Leo's, which you know might be like an Oreo competitor. And you don't say, at least on the front, I see like low sugar anywhere.

But you have on there as their main call-out center, even maybe over the brand, four grams of sugar for serving, right? And this is actually, even when I was zoomed out, like the thing that stood out to me. And so the first thing I saw was four grams of sugar. I saw the product and I immediately recognized it as an Oreo sandwich cookie type product. And then I see, you know, rip van flavor and all that. But it's really, I think, a balance. I curious to know like how you're thinking about that, especially in the

The world of GLP ones now in terms of balancing this sugar fiber narrative with indulgence, because normally they don't go together.

Rip Pruisken (18:38)
Yeah, this one's tricky. I think that we love treats because they're tasty. And I mean, that's why that's what we've been trained on since we're kids. And so the number one thing is that the product, the treat, the sweet snack needs to taste delicious. And so, you know, if people are willing to try the product and have it because they think it's tasty.

that is really the first goal. Once, you know, they think it's tasty and, you know, they care about health, then, you know, making them aware of the fact that the product is significantly healthier because the sugar levels are a lot lower and there's, you know, a good source of fiber. I think that's the hierarchy. Taste first. And that's I think what we've also

realized from social listings, from talking to consumers and and whatnot. I think in terms of your GLP one point, you know, it's very interesting. People are consuming less. You know, people are in GLP ones are consuming less for sure. I mean that's public, publicly known. But the interesting thing is that they're still ha enjoying treats. They're just being more mindful

of what they're having, which means portion control, which means delivering on taste or but having something that's cleaner ingredient and better for you. And, it's it's good fortune, I guess, that we're thinking about only doing portion pack products, using fiber as kind of the main building block to reduce sugar and trying to use clean ingredients. We just thought that was the right thing to do. but I think it's matching where the consumer behavior

is shifting and and has recently shifted as well. Yep.

Jordan Buckner (20:22)
I love that. And even after 16 years of business, I'm sure there's things that are constantly new that you're learning that you're improving on. And I for one have loved seeing and watching your journey and can't wait to watch the next 16. So thanks so much for being on the show.

Rip Pruisken (20:38)
Thanks for having me, Jordan. Was was fun.