Jordan Buckner (00:48)
Today on Startup to Scale, I'm joined by Jack Joseph, who is the founder of RMBR Kombucha. And we're going to be diving into the story behind the brand, including how we got started, what it takes to build a successful kombucha company in a competitive environment, and some of the lessons Jack has learned along the way. We'll also talk through the operation supply chain part of the business and how RMBR has used different resources in order to grow the business. So let's get into it. Jack, welcome to the podcast today.

Jack Joseph (01:15)
Thanks, Jordan. Appreciate it.

Jordan Buckner (01:17)
So starting off, I'd love for you to just share what is RMBR Kombucho, what makes you different, and how did you start?

Jack Joseph (01:24)
Yeah, I remember as a functional beverage company started in Chicago and the whole idea really started once graduating from college in two thousand nineteen. I went to Michigan State and met my wife and business partner there, Kiara And when we graduated from college we were drinking less alcohol because uh

Relative, my brother, went through a really difficult addiction throughout his life, and on his recovery journey, he adopted many different healthy rituals from growing his own food to homeopathic medicine, studying herbalism. And these are all habits that I started to adopt within my own life. And alcohol just didn't become a big prominent part of my lifestyle. And when I was going out, I was having a difficult time finding drinks that were aligned with what I was looking for in a

uh

Yeah.

And as a kombucha drinker myself, I always wondered why it wasn't being promoted as a a social or even a daily ritual because I thought that the components of the drink are naturally functional. There's green tea, there's living bacteria, organic acids, and a bunch of different ingredients that could add value as well. Whereas in ours, we have herbal formulations that have additional value that's being provided to the consumer from digestion.

Um, digestion. I don't know why I'm having a hard time saying that word digestion.

Jordan Buckner (02:53)
good. We can edit that out.

Jack Joseph (02:55)
Calm in the central nervous system, uh, which we certainly all need. So, again, we we asked ourselves, what if we made kombucha cravable and really evolved the category that hasn't evolved since it was pretty much started by GT Dave in 1995? Same packaging, same flavors. So we set out to put the products in cans. We wanted to make a tea-based product that was focused on herbal formulations as opposed to the fruit juice component.

You wanted package it in a way that can fit seamlessly into a social lifestyle, uh into your everyday life, and and also something that made you feel proud and and happy to consume.

Jordan Buckner (03:37)
Yeah, I love that story and just in terms of the inspiration that came behind it and navigating what your brother went through and how you all have taken a better approach to health. Kombucha's an interesting kind of market, right? Like it seemed to all of a sudden come up uh a decade or so ago and it's fairly well known. It's also has kind of had its waves up and down. And so I'd love for you to share just a little bit about like

the kombucha market, what people are looking for out of kombucha, how they're drinking it, and if it's changed over time.

Jack Joseph (04:09)
Yeah, the kombucha market has really been targeting a group of people that are very focused on their health and more particularly their digestive health. But as the market has continued to evolve, we're noticing that people are are reaching for it in many different use case scenarios, whether they're hungover the next day from drinking alcohol and they want to replenish their gut microbiome and also help with that hangover, or if they're just looking to feel better about themselves, or if they want to mix kombucha.

With alcohol, or if they just want to drink it as part of their lunch. Whereas I think in the past, when it started, it was so focused on maybe taking a few sips a day to help with the digestion and just with the gut health overall. And as the market has continued to evolve, you're seeing that there's so many other craft brands that are coming out, which has been amazing for the industry. And we're seeing a lot of growth within those brands, and we are seeing these legacy players falling off and declining year over year.

years so when we look at the category as a whole of course it's gonna be declining because two or three players control the entire market so even if they're down one percent that kind of dictates what's going on with the overall kombucha market but when you look at brands similar to remember and other craft brands that are aligned with that identity we're actually growing year over year so what we're noticing is that consumers aren't sick of the category they're actually just looking for new options and looking for new brands that they can pick up

And remembers really fill in that void.

Jordan Buckner (05:42)
Yeah,

and with that, how have you thought about positioning the brand and getting consumers to understand why RMBR is different compared to some of the legacy players?

Jack Joseph (05:51)
Yeah, I mean in the past we've tried to do too much. I I believe that uh CPG heads like myself always are trying to do too much. But as I've been in this industry now for seven years, I've noticed that simplification of communication of the product is absolutely key and and same with flavors and even functional components. People just want a product to taste good. And if you can communicate that on a package

before they even taste it, then you're gonna drive velocity and and create sales for yourself and also drive incremental growth for the category. And on top of that, we're able to do that by positioning ourselves between a sparkling probiotic tea and a kombucha. And we played around with just kind of leaning fully into the tea component and st and steering away from the kombucha word because it tends to be scary for newcomers within the category. We still haven't taken that leap of faith

I

believe that is something we may do down the line, but I really believe that if we want to see incremental growth, the positioning as a team, more so as a kombucha, is what's gonna bring new people into the category and kind of reignite the excitement about kombucha.

Jordan Buckner (07:06)
Yeah, it's interesting because I think it definitely has like a mainstay for natural channel consumers. On like the larger conventional side, it's still like hit or miss in terms of like people trying it, but a lot of them can like taste really good and just like any beverage, the flavor and taste experience can vary widely across different kombuchas, right? And so it's so important to say like just because you tried a kombucha doesn't mean that you've tried ours. And how do you like

Jack Joseph (07:31)
Exactly.

Jordan Buckner (07:32)
bring people over to give it another chance?

Jack Joseph (07:34)
Yeah, I mean the market's just evolved so much and there's so many amazing brands out there now and that's really what is gonna lead to the rejuvenation of of the kombucha category. But I also think it comes down to innovation of flavors. What are you offering that's unique or new? Not not too complicated of a flavor, but something that might be nostalgic or that people are getting excited about. Format is of course super important to consumers. You look at products like a graza coming in and just

changing the format with a product that everybody already uses within their household something like that is is a simple way to get the attention of the consumer. So there's many different ways to position yourself without overcomplicating it. And that's what I believe ultimately drives success for for a CPG brand, especially in a in a difficult category.

Jordan Buckner (08:25)
What have been some of

your biggest successes to date or any kind of n retail launches that you're excited about?

Jack Joseph (08:30)
I would say one of the biggest successes is probably just getting started in an industry that is probably debatedly the most difficult industry to run and operate a business in. It's extremely competitive. There's new brands coming out every single day in both food and beverage, but beverage, particularly the velocity threshold, is extremely high. So being able to create that demand and and see those sales is incredibly challenging. So starting for one.

I'm really

Proud of myself for getting started in this space and thank God I was naive and young and had no idea what

Jordan Buckner (09:07)
Mm-hmm.

Jack Joseph (09:08)
was going on before starting. Um another another one is just being able to get into over a thousand stores throughout the country with a team of three uh outside of brokerage. There's three full-time employees, including myself, part of the company. uh Jeff, who's our director of sales, he's been a part of the company since the beginning. Kiara, obviously, my wife, who does

Does

all the she's the head of partnerships, head of brand, and I'm the operations guy. And so being able to accomplish what we've accomplished in such a short amount of period of time is is super incredible. Um, and then in terms of retail launches, two partnerships that I'm really proud of are the fresh market, which is primarily a southeast chain. They have some locations in the Midwest, but that was really one of the first chains that felt that our target audience.

Is shopping there. Most of the places that we started in retail were more conventional and not necessarily was that intentional. There were opportunities that came up and we were excited about it, so we ended up taking Then the other one is Jewel Asco. They're just an amazing partner and they're the Midwest uh giant and they really control Illinois and and

parts of Indiana from a retail perspective. So really proud to be in Jewelasco and they're an amazing partner to us. And uh we look forward to growing within both of those and being able to utilize our success within those channels to continue to grow into other places.

Jordan Buckner (10:40)
Yeah,

that's definitely really exciting. And I know along with that growth, especially as a beverage business, as you mentioned, the supply chain and operational problems can be complicated. And so talk to me about ways that you've been able to build out a robust supply chain and any partners that you work with along the way.

Jack Joseph (10:59)
Yeah, that's something that I believe is really important to think about before you get started and not figuring out along the way, which is a mistake that we made. And just starting to get started and not thinking about the your cost of goods or where you're gonna source these materials and thinking about ingredients that won't have issues due to tariffs or supply issues. So that's first off. Um and then on top of that.

Identifying partners like an Opply, for example, and their supplier management ordering platform that that has been super helpful for us because as you grow, cash is tight, and when you're working with more distributors and retailers, their terms get longer and longer. So being able to have a partner that's able to help you out with ordering, give you extended terms, that's been incredibly helpful for our cash flow. And also just having a portal and being able to have everything in front of us so that we can keep.

things organized and streamlined has been amazing. And then lastly I would I would really just say thinking about the way that you're not only producing the product but sourcing your materials where they're all where they're all coming from and making sure that you're thinking about the logistical cost component because that tends to really add up a lot when you're whether you're doing outbound freight um for finished goods or even just sending raw materials to your manufacturer

manufacture

to your warehouse. These are all things that you really have to factor in to your cost to make sure that you're actually ah accommodating them and in your approach as you continue to grow the brand.

Jordan Buckner (12:40)
Yeah, and Opply is our sponsor for today's episode, but I really want to talk to a brand who's working with them to see how you integrate it within your business. And so, you know, before working with them, how are you finding and managing suppliers on your own?

Jack Joseph (12:55)
Google Sheets. Um honestly, just having all of them in one place, having a supplier directory. And now with AI, that's been helpful because I've been able to create different sort of portals within there that keep me a bit organized and I can track the depletion of my ingredients, but that still doesn't necessarily help with the ordering and the extended term component of things. So those are some scrappy ways that I've been able to get by over the past.

few years but being able to hand off some of the workload just gives me more time to focus on what's most important.

Jordan Buckner (13:33)
Yeah, I mean, especially as you're a team of three, right? Like you don't have a logistics manager and an ordering manager, procurement manager and these things. And so is that what Hopley helps to do is like helps on like the procurement side and then gives you the like extended terms?

Jack Joseph (13:46)
Yeah, they're they're purchasing all of our materials, you know, placing the POs for our cans, our lids, our

our dry herbs and ingredients, like pretty much all of our inputs that go into it. So I I can go on the portal and just kind of plug in what I want to order and then they'll actually submit the order. So even just from a communication standpoint, that also takes a lot of time. So I don't have to go back and forth with the suppliers if they have questions, they'll actually handle that on our behalf. But being CC'd on emails and still being being in the know and

Knowing what's going on with everything, so that's another component that's super valuable. And just understanding what the value is of your time and the amount of time that you're gonna be saving by having a partner like them is definitely worth it, at least for us.

Jordan Buckner (14:36)
Yeah, and you know, you mentioned around like leveraging AI for some things in your business, working with partners. It's always interesting, right? 'Cause as a founder of a small team, there's a lot of things that you can do, right? Like you can sit there and content every single supplier every time you have to order, but as you mentioned, like is that the best use of your time? And there's some things that

you know, some the AI tools can start to do, but just like managing communication, managing relationships, and then also the, you know, having terms on ingredients and like that is where it's great to have a partner help with your business. And, you know, one thing that you said too that resonated with me around ingredient sources and logistics, I remember with my business T Squares, we were sourcing almonds and I found a really great supplier in Washington State, but we were manufacturing in Chicago. And

Jack Joseph (15:21)
Mm-hmm.

Jordan Buckner (15:22)
we found like a really good price, like the best price for ingredients. But once you added in shipping to get to Chicago, the price like almost doubled, right? And just for the freight alone. And we ended up finding a supplier that was already in Chicago. And so the um the unit price was a little bit higher. But because we didn't have shipping costs associated, it was a lot lower. And so like even

those differences

Jack Joseph (15:42)
Exactly.

Jordan Buckner (15:43)
can make a huge um benefit for your business. I love that.

Jack Joseph (15:46)
Yeah,

and I know that they have a whole supplier directory so they can help you source suppliers and and find some if you're having a hard time for some of your ingredients.

Jordan Buckner (15:56)
Yeah, I love that. So, you know, looking back, what is one decision you made early for your business that had a bigger impact on RMBR than you expected?

Jack Joseph (16:06)
That's a good question.

Yeah, I would say

Probably the decision to do uh a cold chain living fermented product because it really shapes your integrity and your outlook of the industry and also just on how the product is cultivated and and moved across the country and the different costs associated with that and the way that that trickles down.

all the way to the consumer, the end consumer who's actually purchasing the product and it really makes you think about the way that you would do it if you had to do it all over again. So I'm not sure if that answers your question. That was a definitely a tough one to

Jordan Buckner (16:53)
I mean it does because

right, like I can imagine you've chosen one of the hardest product categories because like refrigerated beverage with live ingredients in a can, like has so many elements that you have to manage. And it's not like you just switch those overnight, you'd be a completely different company. Um and so like how do you manage things like

With it being living, have you found that like the taste changes be depending on like how long it sits when they get to the consumer? Or like what have been some of the things that you have to put in place to manage that product quality throughout the journey?

Jack Joseph (17:26)
Yeah, if it's handled properly, it shouldn't, but sometimes it goes unrefrigerated for a day here or a day there, and that definitely impacts the flavor because it's unpasteurized, it's living it and if it heats up for a couple days, then it's gonna continue to ferment. So that definitely affects the fra the flavor profile. Um and it's impossible to have complete oversight and management over that. So, you know, we do our best to make sure that we're label everything properly from

From

our cases to keep them refrigerated to on our cans, keep refrigerated and uh trying to let people know this is a living product. But of course, I mean people still leave it out because they're so accustomed to purchasing products that are shelf stable. So it creates issues. And so, you know, when we create another product line, that's one of the things right in front of our mind is: do we go shelf stable? Do we focus on creating a refrigerated beverage? Because the one upside is that everybody wants.

wants

to be in the cooler and for us it's either cooler or nothing. So that's the that yeah,

Jordan Buckner (18:30)
You have to be in the cooler.

Jack Joseph (18:32)
so I mean that that's the one nice component about it. Um selling a a drink on the dry self shelf is so hard. Um so we're we're at least grateful that we get to be sold in the in the

Jordan Buckner (18:43)
Yeah, that's what we're saying. I know mentioned earlier you mentioned a little bit around AI. I'm curious, like how are you using it for your your business and what impacts have you seen that make just on you like your daily operating flow?

Jack Joseph (18:57)
Yeah, I mean nothing crazy, honestly. I'm not super well versed in AI. I I just think that it's been able to help me with my inventory on raw materials and managing that and being able to track all that also with finished goods. So helping me create trackers has been super nice and something that's would take me weeks to create. I can make in ten minutes. Also analyzing data.

That's been super helpful. So being able to go to my QuickBooks, pull reports, throw it into AI, help me understand what's going on and you know areas that we can improve, expenses that we can cut out, um, you know, what our run rate is, all these things that can just be answered so quickly. So it's it's awesome too because it helps you learn. I think there's a misconception of it holding our holding your hand too much where you're gonna lose the ability to

kinda think on your own behalf, but I've been able to learn a lot from it. Um that usually takes tons and tons of time so you have to read books. So being able to have a tool like that has been super helpful for me personally.

Jordan Buckner (20:04)
That's

one thing I've been learning a lot about is just like ways of using it as a tool to supercharge what you're already doing and to help you versus then like do everything for you. So love that.

Jack Joseph (20:14)
Exactly.

Jordan Buckner (20:15)
What is the next stage of growth looking like for remember? Like what do you focus on next and what do you hope to achieve next?

Jack Joseph (20:22)
Yeah, we're really focused on line expansion. So we want to come out with new flavors of our kombucha line, but also come out with a new product line altogether that that really complements what we're doing now, so that not only could we go after new retailers, but we can go deep within them and just take up more of the shelf that we're operating in today. Um and really just kind of solve a different problem. So I would say that and then uh additionally continuing to expand.

Expand our food service business and office business. We just landed a contract with Crafty, so we're gonna be selling within offices in upstate California and then across New York. Um and still in Chicago, because we do have a contract with them here as well. But there's a lot of these channels that are

underrepresented for our category and we want to continue to grow within those because being in the grocery store is fantastic. That's where you're gonna find your consumer. But in order to create brand awareness, this is a way that you can be paid to create brand awareness where people might be able to try the product for free or just get it at their local coffee shop and then when they go to the grocery store they recognize and then they're able to pick it up there. So I would say that those so those are some of the initiatives that we're focused on.

Jordan Buckner (21:39)
Yeah,

I love Crafty. They were one of our partners with TeaSquares as well and really helped to grow the business. And you know, especially the

Jack Joseph (21:43)
cool. nice.

Jordan Buckner (21:45)
office channel, I think it's really really amazing because exactly what you mentioned, like they'll buy your product and you're getting trial amongst everyone there.

Jack Joseph (21:53)
Mm-hmm.

Jordan Buckner (21:54)
I remember a lot of Colbrew coffee brands got their start by essentially offering like kegs.

in the office so that people can just like go to the tap and like fill up their cup without even having to like grab a can or anything from that. And that

Jack Joseph (22:06)
Yeah.

Jordan Buckner (22:07)
helped move a lot of volume of product too, right? And because you don't have individual units, you can do that, but there's still ways to like brand it and make sure people know what they're drinking. And so are you gonna do the cans or have you explored anything like doing a a keg of kombucha before? I mean that's possible. Okay.

Jack Joseph (22:22)
Yeah, we do kegs. We we

do a lot of kegs actually. Um and we'll continue to do those in the Chicagoland area, but we're just gonna be doing cans in California, New York, because the distributor that they work with doesn't do kegs.

Jordan Buckner (22:36)
But yeah, I love that as a way to just like to remove a lot of volume of liquid, like getting people to actually drink it regularly.

Jack Joseph (22:41)
Yeah.

No kegs are great. I mean I can't imagine the volume for a cold brew keg. That's insane.

Jordan Buckner (22:48)
Yeah, probably more than beer in a lot of places. Well,

Jack Joseph (22:50)
Yeah.

Jordan Buckner (22:51)
Jack, this is awesome. I'm so excited for everything that's happening with RMBR. Thanks for being on and sharing about the brand, how you get started. I think a lot of good uh tippies in there for any other founders listening on how they can grow their business. And if you need help managing your supply chain and getting extended terms on your ingredients, definitely check out Opply. It'll be including including their info in the show notes. Jack, thanks again.

Jack Joseph (23:14)
Yep, thanks Jordan.